Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure
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Whats the book called?
I've been into mechanical engineering for 40 years and nothing along these lines is ever going to get me riled, I'm a problem solver, not a problem maker. If you are really serious about getting Land Rover riled I would think it a good idea to get accurate, detailed information and act on that so that when they come back at you have the right answers to hand. I've said this before, there is enough information available to prove that the engine wasn't up to standard but I'm not into legal things etc and can't be of much help along these lines and I don't really have the time to either but, I'll do what I can. I have no need to plug my book on this forum as the book distributors do all that sort of thing, I basically finished everything to do with the Rover K-Series engine months ago and moved on to another project, I remain interested in this forum in an effort to be helpful and prevent owners losing their engines unneccesarily. You are into something else which is having a go at Land Rover and that's fine but I would caution you that they seem to have an excellent legal department. There are no simple answers to do with the K-Series engine which is why no one seems to have any cases and solution etc, etc. I'm actually trying to help you but you seem to think I'm into financial gain so, I'll look at your post again shortly and I'll answer your questions. Kindest Regards Des Hammill
It's called 'The Rover K-Series 16V Engine' and covers the entire range of this engine series. It has been designed help all interested persons gain a complete understanding of what has happened with this engine from its inception in the early 1980s through to the closure of Rover in 2005. It's technical but simplified for anyone to read as a good read and, it does not contain any of my personal opinions. It's available from info@assonpublishing for sure and many other places which I as a writer don't know about. Kindest Regards Des Hammill
JBT
Can I ask you what happened in 2005 when after BBC Watchdog, Irwin Mitchell Solicitors filed a group claim of 300 head gasket related owners... What was the result? Settlement before reaching court, or did MG Rover file bankrupt because of the immenent loss, can you clarify to me exactly what happened. Best wishes JBT
Good luck.... Ken
I don't have a lot of time today but here is my quick reply. Your 2005 replacement engine failed at 23,000 miles yet this was of the type which was supposed not to fail? Uness your engine was produced earlier than one month before the closure of MG-Rover it DID NOT have the MLS head gasket and is the same as any other 1.8L K-Series engine which was fitted with an SLS head gasket. The last months Freelander production and the subsequent Freelander engine made were fitted with the new MLS head gasket. Land Rover started to offer the MLS head gasket in dealership from February 2006 as a more robust gasket to the SLS one. Your oil rail was not an unsitable one off a 1.4L, it was the one used on all K-Series engines until Land Rover only started to fit the MLS head gaskets one month before the closure of MG-Rover. The original oil rail remained in use on the other SLS equipped K-Series engines. You might have an MLS head gasket equipped repalcement engine or you might not, you don't know and, you wouldn't have known what gasket to look for or what 'the modifications' entailed anyway. It's all in my book which I think would be helpful to you. Today garages are fitting the MLS head gasket to ALL failed K-Series engines and what is more few if any garages remove the sump and change the original oil rail for the Land Rover type. No customer wants to pay the extra for that. Such engines don't fail through the fitting of the what could be termed the incorrect oil rail, they might seep a bit but that's all. Frequent coolant checks solves this problem. All facts on this are in my book which is best available from: e-mail [Log in to view email] or look at http://www.assonpublishing.com If you want to continue as you say you do you need accurate information of the type mentioned. Please let me know if I haven't answered to your satisfaction. Kindest Regards Des Hammill
Thank you for your informative reply, your comments match what has happend to me. However I am surprised that you think that this is not evidence enough to sue Land Rover (and I am not talking about my additional Customer Care saga), surely if an engine is badly designed the manufacturer and supplier should be taken into account, and if they know that customers have spent £1,000 - £4,000 on replacement parts/engines then should they not send out a circular to all customers who they know have had an earlier head gasket, that it is unsuitable for the job? I aslo ask fro your knowledge on the Irwin Mitchel Group sue after the BBC watchdog investigatiojn, can you conclusively say what the outcome to this was? Best wishes JBT
I'm not really qualified to make comment on evidence etc., it needs someone really conversant with the law to do this. You need to look back in the forum to see what has been said in the past and by whom. I never looked into such matters as legal cases so I can't help you there. However you just have to look at the way Land Rover has handled the whole situation to see that they have managed to 'keep the lid on' everything to do with the failure situation and largely due to settlements with non-disclosure clauses probably; meaning the people who complained had their cases settled provided they agreed not to mention the outcome etc. That's how it's probably done, I don't really know, it's just a guess on my part. Kindest Regards Des Hammill Adverts Currently On Preloved - Place an ad here for free
When one of these engines fails, what has to be done is ascertain just exactly how hot the engine got once the coolant was not contained within the engine and cooling system generally. This isn't necessarily all that easy to do. A proportion of engines are going to sustain more damage than just needing a head gasket replacement, meaning that the engine was driven after the initial engine failure and when the car should not have been driven and to the point that there is now secondary damage to consider. In your case what has likely happened is that the cylinder head gasket etc has indeed been fixed but, your engine has big end bearing, piston and liner damage of the rear most cylinder and perhaps other cylinders; usually it's the rearmost one. In your case the engine may have needed an entire rebuild. Some engines do not get overheated when the head gasket fails for various reasons and once the head gasket has been replaced all is well. This is why Land Rover tended to choose to replace the entire engine when there was a problem and some doubt about the condition of the rest of the engine. Obviously they were replacing slightly damaged engines at times but what they didn't want and why they adopted this system was comebacks. You must remember it doen't cost Land Rover anything like what it does you to buy a reconditioned engine. When Land Rover offer to go halves in a reconditioned engine for example they are still probably making money out of you! Kindest Regards Des Hammill
************************************************************************************************************ When one of these engines fails, what has to be done is ascertain just exactly how hot the engine got once the coolant was not contained within the engine and cooling system generally. This isn't necessarily all that easy to do. A proportion of engines are going to sustain more damage than just needing a head gasket replacement, meaning that the engine was driven after the initial engine failure and when the car should not have been driven and to the point that there is now secondary damage to consider. ************************************************************************************************************ Just wanted to reply to that (especially the bit about engines being driven after the initial failure and secondary damage) Youre going to get the local doom mongers baying for blood there , i was hung drawn and quartered for writing virtually the same about 18 months ago , its just nice to read someone else confirming my own experiences with this engine . ___________________ http://landroveradvice.myfastforum.org The only believers are brainwashed !!
In particular your comments in your posting of the 18th July: There is an element of truth in the fact that the Freelander is a heavy car and the engine is a bit small for it but that is not the reason why these engines fail. They fail prematurely in virtually every single car they powered, light or heavy (2.7 million!). The first Freelander thermostat arrangement was regarded as not good enough and it would be fair enough to say that the second design was better but, the first one was not faulty as such. The problem was and always has been fair and square within the engine. The fundmental change was from an SLS head gasket by land Rover to an MLS head gasket as well as a change to a different oil rail ladder. While the MLS head gasket removes the prospect of certain types of failure the problems with the engine are not solved, more solved enough perhaps to prevent the massive number of failures occuring again at the usual distance covered. Some people might consider this a cure. I doubt very much whether your replacement engine had an MLS head gasket fitted to it so it was bound to fail early and at the general and usual distance covered. There is no mystery here as to why your engine failed. If your engine did have an MLS head gasket fitted to it it wouldn't be a silicone seal problem naturally but there are plenty of other types of possible failure in these engines because of other things going on inside the engine, none of them good. These engines are being made in China now and are on the market in cars there but, to my knowledge no major changes have been made to the engine and the new MLS head gasket is being relied on to keep the engine reliable. It's unlikely that the K-Series engine will be seen on the UK roads in cars on a large scale if at all. It's all a great shame really as the engine's design principles were fine, it was the execution of the design that caused the problems and the going against the known requirements of what makes an engine a good engine that was the problem. Kindest Regards Des Hammill
I have carried out what I consider to be a very thorough investigation of this engine and not because I like the engine particularly but because I got curious as to what was going on with it; I couldn't understand it. I'm not sure what people are going to say against my latest comments as it is fact but I guess we will see. I'll look back and see what you have said and what was said in reply, can you give me a page number to save me some time? Kindest Regards Des Hammill
Start at page 38 , back then i believed that alot of these engines could be repaired , these such vehicles that were needing engine replacement were ( in my opinion ) not just a result of just the hg failing but of the fact that they were being driven to almost destruction . Since then ive had the "commercial gains" aquasation thrown at me and i had other motives , but like you were and have always been trying to give advise about a subject were are well versed in . We saw some that were heavily emulsified but were repairable however we saw some with pistons coming from the block , worn big ends and rattling tappets - these were not just a result of the hg just failing . Take a look from 38 it makes good reading ! ___________________ http://landroveradvice.myfastforum.org The only believers are brainwashed !!
There are 2 belts depending on tensioner , for the life of me i cant remeber which one is which , get in contact with your local parts dealer they should be able to help . ___________________ http://landroveradvice.myfastforum.org The only believers are brainwashed !!
I've had a look at the specific area and I get the picture. It wouldn't actually hurt for a few other people to go back and have a look at what has been said in the past. You don't say anything there that isn't correct but it all gets very emotive if you have a failed engine. I didn't have a failed engine so had no need to be emotive. The fact is that MG-Rover and Land Rover fell out over the problems with these engines and it's quite understandable why. Land Rover even set up (in their own words) a 'task force' to study the whole matter which, resulted in MG-Rover developing the MLS head gasket. Land Rover don't appear to understand what went on inside this engine anymore than MG-Rover did. It was in fact the near complete lack of accurate information coming from all sources that puzzled me so much that I decided to research this engine. The MLS head gasket is masking the problems and nothing else. It's a great shame actually as MG-Rover could have fixed ALL of the problems very quickly in like a six month re-development and, the SLS gasket could have stayed on the engine. Believe it or not 98% of ex MG-Rover engineers do not understand what actually was the problem with this engine and, those that did question things got asked by management/their bosses if they liked working at MG-Rover. Even now, today, anyone who wants to say what it is that is actually wrong with this engine can take this opportunity to do so, that is, before reading my book of course which explains the whole thing. All I did was apply my long standing racing engine checking and testing procedures to this engine to narrow down exactly what the problems were with it. It took me longer than it should have because I have no standard engine design experience and I wasn't sure what the limits were for such engines. Kindest Regards Des Hammill
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