Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure

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Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 16 July 2009, 11:41 PM   Edited by Stewart 16 July 2009, 11:53 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

K V6 Tech responce.......very unsual failure......??

Hi Stewart,
3rd attempt so hope it gets to you this time round.
Sorry for the delay in responding to you concerning the problem with the Land Rover Freelander with the V6 engine.
The basic design is on the same lines as the 4 cylinder K Series,(ie Block and Cylinder Liner design methods) but it does not use the same technique in holding the engine together as is the case with the Cylinder Head Engine Bolts in the 1.4 to 1.8 K engines.
It is very unusual for the V6 version to suffer head gasket failure, but again it could be due to loss of coolant, which as appreciated no engine can do without. A common cause for the V6 to lose water is from the failure of the plastic Thermostat Housing, located under the plastic engine top cover, which can crack and leak coolant into the V recess. I am wondering if, when they changed the engine, which would probably be a new bare engine unit, with the original fittings etc., being transferred from the old engine to the new.
For a second failure to occur is very strange though, and again it begs the question. Was The Cause of the Original Failure properly established??? As I understand the V6 faired fairly well when fitted in the Freelander, so, though very inconvenient for the owner to say the least, it is not a common problem. However due to this vehicles history, it should be incumbent on the supplying and repairing dealer to stand by his customer and be of some assistance in sorting his customers problems out. The standards that many companies now work to, are in my opinion deplorable. When I ran Truck Dealerships, a case of this kind would certainly have been looked at very closely before arriving at any decision and if you valued your customer at all, an obvious decision would be made.
Dont think I have been much help on this but thought I would drop you a line this way rather than on the Forum direct.
Hope all is well with you and just add that we have had a brilliant spell of weather here in Scotland over the past 2 weeks with little rain in site.
Regards,
Telfer.

So, we can ALL see that the 'Engine Designers' owe us an explanation?

I am a Tech, and believe what Dudkat and others say?

Wish I could be kool, like my 'Telfer' friend??

Let's talk Forum?

Stewart - Cape Town.




___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 19 July 2009, 8:03 PM

cheapaschips Joined 5 Dec 2007 2 posts

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 19 July 2009, 9:08 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

NO CHEAP JOBS. Just read back till the beginning of June 09.

Otherwise, take the punnishment, and offload the car!

Or bring it to Africa, and do an Insurance Write Off? (See Pik)

Kindest wishes,

Stewart - Cape Town.





___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 19 July 2009, 10:20 PM

cheapaschips Joined 5 Dec 2007 2 posts

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 20 July 2009, 10:56 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

Here is Steleuk input .....

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure
22 June 2009, 6:28 PM steleeuk
Joined 9 Jul 2008
26 posts

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The head gasket/timing belt and waterpump cost a total of £450 job done with a 12 month warentee/10000 miles

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure
22 June 2009, 1:33 PM steleeuk
Joined 9 Jul 2008
26 posts

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Hi i had the new modified head gasket fitted 12 months ago and its been fine ever since,just had it for an mot and it failed on windscreen wipers and handbreak to slack..cost me 30 quid to get it through,
the guy i used to do my head gasket is a mobile mechanic but ex landrover technition and when he turned up last year to do my freelander gasket i was shocked to see he was in a petrol freelender!
he told me the new head gaskets worked a treat and mine has so far been fine..he also did a major service for 180 quid and stamped my book at xmas..i was gonna recently sell it but if i got 2000/2500 what would i get for that ? and as its running well i will keep it another year i think.

Here is my input......
Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure
21 June 2009, 7:19 PM Stewart
Joined 13 Jun 2009
38 posts

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Introducing myself woodiess from Cape Town, a new member. Although out of touch with Modern Technology, I am an ex T.Eng (CEI) and C&G FTC - West Kent Coll 1977!!
BEFORE YOU ALL SAY 'WOT THE Bl.....g Hell! Your LR Engine is used in my MG TF !!!!
My '69 MGB GT is wot I know! Our latest Aquisition (Lady's choice) is a 2003/4 TF 135 with 67k on the clock. Within 2 mths and 500k, emulsion in the header tank!
YOU ALL MUST READ VERY CAREFULLY and more so, WATCH YOUR REPAIRER OVER HIS SHOULDER! You want THE OLD PARTS RETURNED in a box! I am an ex Service Manager Trainee! (VW, MB, Alpha Rom and Mazda) So I know the TRICKS!!!
He must without fail, use the ENTIRE MLS HG KIT as suggested by MG Rover (HG, Shim, Oil Rail, Bolts and water pump (for reasons ? Impeller Degradation), and if alot of coolant in the oil, maybe the Oil Pump and ALL Crank Bearing Shells! A pre 2002 engine must have the Remote Thermostat conversion, not the 'Quick Fix' - pull out the Thermostat as suggested by the LR Freebie dingbats!
Don't skimp - do it properly with latest NEW BOLTS! When you refit them they S T R E T C H E V E N if measured OK!!
Alot of R & D has gone into this problem, with a still brilliant design. (Lotus Elise now moved to H2000 Motors)
All this is going to fail if the Liners have dropped and started to hammer the Head Facing at the Fire Ring! I had NO COOLANT in the Sump, but pulled the Head immediately when noticing oil contamination of the coolant in the Tank.
What my guy found, was 2 dropped liners (1 & 2 - Hottest!!) and the car left the Factory with the NEW Remote Therm!
I put alot of research into K Series prior to purchase (MG Car Club Cape Town) My thoughts were (as also of my ex MG Mech) It's going to happen, but when? Most went at 30 to 38k kms in South Africa. So in judging, all offers that were 'fixed' prior to Year 2008, were excluded!
I wanted the latest production VIN possible knowing the Remote Therm was done with the steel dowels, and the latest R & D Kit available. Our MG Parts Supplier bought a 2005 135 - Emulsion in Tank. Had another
?? MG Mech do the MLS HG without the Rail and Bolts (Cheap job!) - and the dingbat fitted the Shim to the Blok below the HG!!!
Say no more. His Cams had no oil pressure and started to sieze! So friends all over the world, it is so important to put common sense into this HGF Issue.
I don't want to believe reading the continued HGF (L/R, MG and Lotus) without knowing the LATEST SPEC HAS BEEN CARRIED OUT WITHOUT ANY DEVIATION ??
I would sincerely appreciate all input to my contribution.
I have a very latest MLS pdf to fwd to anyone [Log in to view email]
Meantime, check these out - Best wishes woodiess - Cape Town (very wet today!)
http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Head_gasket_failure
http://www.qednet.demon.co.uk/rk/remotestat.htm
http://www.mgfmavhh.ukf.net/
http://www.mgfcar.de/thermostat/Water_System_Mods.htm
http://www.aronline.co.uk/index.htm?essaykseriesf.htm
http://www.qednet.demon.co.uk/rk/remotestat.htm

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure
22 June 2009, 8:31 PM
Edited by Stewart 22 June 2009, 8:45 PM Stewart
Joined 13 Jun 2009
38 posts

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Hi Steleeuk and Vansu. Thank you both for getting this serious conversation going again, without 'foul word' to eachother and, LR! G8 that u are getting ahead of things Steleeuk.
It is NOT JUST CHECKING OIL AND COOLANT LEVELs ?
Yup I also agree, amazing your Mech arriving with a K18 motor Freebie LR!
You see everybody - LR Petrol K18 Lives on! Gives one super confidence when suffering like us MG owners do?
Remember, because of my MG TF Cyl Liner Drops Nos 1 and 2, we had to have the Head sorted (luckily a skim @ 5 thou cleaned it ), 4 x Liners with Rings and, all Crank Bearing shells.
NB All Failures with Coolant in the Sump, should have Crank Shells, and maybe an Oil Pump!
Vansu - Gaby and I will get the MG TF returned 2morro with the 'FULL KIT' fitted as my listing (NB: New OIL RAIL + BOLTS) @ RSA18000, about GBP1350. We wonder if we getting a reasonable deal from Rover here in South Africa??
As I have stated, this is our 1st issue with the Rover K18 Series Motor.
My research has shown, only the FULL PACKAGE HG will provide the answer -and still no guarantees from the dingbat and defunkt ?-over corp!
Directors' have their severence packages, but a few DEDICATED supplier/source Engineers' are committed to R & D.
Steleeuk, I am still concerned that u have not replaced the Oil Rail and Bolts!!! Remember, the New Oil Rail is so much more Rigid, and provides NEW STABILITY to the 'Sandwich Construction'. Let's see.
I need to follow your case very closely.
Will be interesting for our MG Car Club guys - I am the Spares and Sales Secretary for Cape Town.
We have 34 registered K18 TFs in the Cape Town Club.
Anyway, I am looking forward to getting the TF back tomorrow (Gaby wants to 'Offload'!)
As a post note, our Chairman James, 'race tracks' his 160 TF regularly, and at about 50k kms has had no issue since 30k kms with the earlier MLS Gasket only !!!!
I rest my case. Lets have some input here please readers. Pass on to your MG Buddies, and let's get excited?
woodiess - Cape Town

You must find a competent repairer who will religiously follow the upgraded repair, using the new MLS Kit AND NEW BOLTS, even if the old ones measure OK!
Below is a copy and paste from Telfer a fellow Rover forum writer. It repeats everything I have previously submitted. The MG / Rover guys are happy with this procedure used in the same engine as Freebie's!
It is essential that the cause of the failure is fully established before any repair is started, as it would appear that this was possibly not done when the last failure occurred. (See last paragraph aswell)
To ensure that a successful repair is carried out, PLEASE ENSURE that the latest Cylinder Head Gasket Kit is fitted, Part No. KUA000080, which is readily available from Xpart agents or Land Rover Dealerships. It may also be necessary to use new set of Cylinder Head Retaining Bolts, as the old ones may now have stretched and be beyond there specification limit.
Also the following Items should be checked.
1. Ensure there are no system water leaks from and including, hoses, all piping and Radiator. Also check that the Radiator Cap is functioning correctly and not allowing any water to escape, due to the pressure spring having become weak and therefore allow coolant to escape the system.
Water Pump, ensure this unit is in sound condition with no sign of water leaks from the unit.
Ensure the Thermostat is in good operating condition.

2. With the Cylinder Head removed, establish that its face is flat and that it has not suffered any distortion or serious fire ring burning indentations. The face of these Cylinder Heads has a hardened surface and some people do not recommend that it should be machined. However some successful repairs have been carried out by surface grinding a little, to regain a true flat surface. If badly distorted, scrap the Cylinder Head and replace.

3. Cylinder Liner Height. It is critical and very important that the Liner Height is correct and that they are all at an even height above the Cylinder Block Face. This measurement should be 0 - 0.10mm for 1.6 and 1.8 K Series engine.

4. On rebuilding the engine it is essential to use the new Cylinder Head Gasket Kit, Part No. as given above. It consists of 3 parts. 1:-Multi Layer Steel Gasket. (Looks similar to the old gasket, but in fact has more Layers and is of a different construction).
2:- Cylinder Head Shim. This is fitted with the black coated side to the Cylinder Head Face and is fitted between the Head Face and the Cylinder Head Gasket.
3:- Oil Feed Ladder Rail. To fit this item requires the removal of the engines oil sump. The Cylinder Head Bolts pass through this item and it forms part of the engine sandwich for want of a better description. The modified Oil Feed Ladder Rail is of a modified design and replaces the old unit. It is made of a stronger material and gives an improved clamping effect on the Cylinder Head Gasket. It was found that the original Oil Feed Ladder Rail, could in some circumstances, compress/distort very slightly and weaken the clamping of the Cylinder Head Gasket in place. Also, and this is important, Xpart will not cover the new Cylinder Head Gasket, under their Terms of Warranty, without the fitting of the Modified Oil Feed Ladder Rail. Do not be put off by any repairer saying this is not necessary, as it is an integral part of the improved design.
Having your repair carried out using the above Kit and subject of course to a good standard of workmanship, you should be able to look forward to a future without the worry of a recurrence of the Cylinder Head gasket failure. It will however always be essential for you to "FREQUENTLY? check the water/coolant level and any loss be immediately investigated.

Also check the type of Cylinder Head Dowels. On early 1.8's these were made of a plastic composition but were later replaced by steel dowels. Ensure that your engine has Steel Dowels between the Cylinder Head and Block.

One more item to check (in pre 2001 prod. engines) is the condition of the Plastic Inlet Manifold. This has a water channel built into it to assist with fast warm up of the air going into the engine. (Some engines had an alloy cast manifold). Make sure that this item is in a sound condition, and be sure that it is fitted to the engine using the modified type joint gaskets, which should be a sort of Duck Egg Blue colour. They are a bit more substantial than the older joint/gaskets used on earlier built engines. These older joints were prone to leaking and should be replaced with the later type gaskets. However having said that, I think the stocks of the older joint/gasket should be used up by now, but its worth mentioning.
Kind Courtesy of Telfer and Edited (in his absence).

Go for it, and let us know friend.

Regards,

Stewart - Cape Town

___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 31 July 2009, 4:30 PM

steleeuk Joined 9 Jul 2008 44 posts

i have been working away so not been on here , hope all the bickering has now stopped..

Dudcat i asked you what a purge valve is for a while back and if i disconected it and drove without it what would happen ? its only a little thing but it makes a loud tapping noise

please can you enlighten me as your a tech and i value your advise

ta m8

ps hope you and capetown are fine stew :D

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 31 July 2009, 8:49 PM   Edited by dudkat72 31 July 2009, 8:51 PM

dudkat72 Joined 6 Mar 2006 908 posts

I believe the item youre refering to is the charcoal canister on the nsf bulkhead ?

If so then some do tick...my mates sounds like a tommy gun going off sometimes but it has no adverse effect on the running of the vehicle or effects emissions.
Fuel vapour is sent to this canister and at certain times during running is bleed back into the induction manifold to help with combustion... i would be inclined to leave it connected.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 31 July 2009, 9:18 PM

steleeuk Joined 9 Jul 2008 44 posts

yes thats the 1 m8 and ok if you recon its ok i will leave it be and yes i can relate to your m8s being like a tommy gun !

thankyou for that advise :)

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 4 August 2009, 10:07 PM

Lin Joined 4 Aug 2009 0 posts

My 2002 Freelander was a great performing vehicle, the 2004 has been nothing but trouble since day two. I will never buy or recommend a Land Rover product again.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 18 August 2009, 8:50 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

I cannot believe how quiet this Forum has become. I suppose all are bored with the same old *!#%!@, nah?
I admit, I have been a strong promoter of 'a correct job done' as with
a few others, including our Techs Dudkat and Telfer. My MG TF K18 cost GBP 1700 to do properly - getting away with a head 'clean up'.
Your motor has not been ASSESSED properly - the sort of thing Dudkat, Telfer, Kaiser (Johannesburg) and myself have been advising all along!
Two posts ago was a full MINIMUM repair requirement submitted by myself. A combination of all the required info from the above guys' posts.
PRINT IT and find a reputable Rover Technician who is available and will
rebuild your motor accordingly. Stu's last post to Dudkat about his valve issue, had a travelling Tech do his Freebie - and he arrived in a Freebie!!!!
Dudkat can also advise. I am in Cape Town, RSA so, hardly next door!

The long and the short of it - if you love your car, and want it - it will not cost you more than 2k to 5k to do a serious repair that will last!
I cannot repeat what I had done - you must research back - not far.
Dudkat is brilliant. Stu was just like you a wee while ago, and a test case! Stu is very happy AND CHECKING HIS LEVELS "COLD" DAILY BEFORE START UP!

Stu, give Lin the guys' contacts please. Dudkat,maybe you can help?

Good luck Lin - KEEP THE CAR, AND DO IT BETTER THAN FACTORY??
There are many of us with LF Freebies, MG TF's and Lotus' all over the globe with the SAME friggin K18 Series Motor!!!! We have built a library of rebuild info for you.
The results are being experienced - so far, so good!

NOW EVERYONE. This is what I read in our Club Mags. Wotch
the press please.

You probably already know. This is Headline News in our South African MG Newsletters!

Regards, Stewart - Cape Town.

PS: DOWN WITH THE *!#%!@?

PROBE INTO MG ROVER

British regulators to probe MG Rover collapse: reports

July 6, 2009

Source: http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?from=......ticleId=5068355

Britain's Serious Fraud Office will probe the demise of historic car manufacturer MG Rover which collapsed in 2005 with the loss of 6000 jobs, media reports said on Sunday.

The BBC reported, without citing its source, that UK Business Secretary Peter Mandelson would announce the investigation before parliament on Monday.

The British Sunday Times, which also gave no source, added that a long-running government inquiry had found there were grounds for a criminal investigation.





___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

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Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 18 August 2009, 9:50 PM

stu Joined 1 Sep 2008 123 posts

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 18 August 2009, 10:25 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

Sorry Friend. Then why was Dudkat answering you Stu ??

Hope things are ok with you and the LR?

Have just read a PM from Telfor in Scotland. All is fine with him, except the PC!!

Regards from a STORMY ad WET Cape Town.

70+ mm today! And I commute 36kms return on my '78 Honda XL185S!

Keep smiling. Give me a message sometime busy man?

Don't 4get to giv Lin your Tech contact.

Stewart - Cape Town

___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 19 August 2009, 9:08 AM

stu Joined 1 Sep 2008 123 posts

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 19 August 2009, 9:12 AM

stu Joined 1 Sep 2008 123 posts

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 19 August 2009, 9:01 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

Changing the subject. If you look at the Storm Pik I last posted.
My business is situated just to the right of the Pine Tree, at the base of Table Mountain in the City - 18kms. Eat your hearts' out!!

Keep smiling all. So much for LR Freebie issues.

ALL been sorted now??

I do apologise for maybe 'hijacking' the LR Forum - but really, nothing is happening. I think that I have added a little difference and some cheer to the Forum, with Cape Town Piks for you all. How was that KV6 Pik?
Wot a 'Lump' !

Wot's Dudkat doing this summer?

Regards, Stewart - Cape Town.




___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 19 August 2009, 10:44 PM

stu Joined 1 Sep 2008 123 posts

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 7 September 2009, 4:50 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

I am sure the tappets were set and all the stuff done correctly. I used an ex 'old Honda' guy to do the job in a Yamaha Dealership. Bakka worked for Charlie's Honda in Cape Town for most of the 60's thru 80's, and then after Charlie's death moved to Yamaha as W/Shop Manager.
Honda material comes thru in 4 days from Belgium!
So, all in all, a gr8 oldie to use as a commuter - tall and agile.
Now to K18 - wot the Forum is about?
My TF so far is superb. Gaby wants OUT. So the MG TF is on the market again. I am using the car as much as possible - and therefore, here ends the Stewart W - Cape Town contribution.
It has been gr8 chatting to you all.
I look forward to getting my '69 MGB back.
Best regards, Stewart.
In finale, the nicest Sunset Pik ever for you all.




___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 11 September 2009, 9:55 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

Hey, the issue is K18 HGF? Yup, you all did it right, so there are no complaints?

Dudkat was right all along - suss out your Tech and do it FULL HOG!
Telfer, Woodiess and Kaiser support Dudkat and his tech contribution.

South Africa is doing OK with 'THE FULL HOG' nd enjoying our K18's. Just the wives have a problem with Low Seating and Hard MG Suspension?

What's happening in Cape Town ? I am about to show you in a few Piks in the next few postings.

This is the 'Beached Coal Carrier 8th Sept 9am.

Best regards to you all.

Stewart W - CT




___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 11 September 2009, 10:04 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

My K18 is still wonderful and performing!

Pik is 'Coal Carrier beached' from our back garden (to the left above wall)

___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Failure 11 September 2009, 10:16 PM

Stewart Joined 13 Jun 2009 120 posts

The next pik is taken from inside my Business Premises, of the Dreaded Hummer !

The Hummer 'AH', is trying to park outside the shop this afternoon! This was his 3rd attempt to get the car straight!
Huge V8 noise, and a total 'F up' with driver skill.
'Darkest Africa x 2', in the vehicle? Income levels as refugees? or, maybe a businessman?? Maybe he is into 'lighting' ?

Check the front roof lights! I counted 8 on the front grille aswell! Should check out the Disco lights inside the vehicle!

Anyway. The Driver accellerates in 'jerks' (Driver, loves V8 NOISE), and nearly 'jerked' into a middle lane down running car!

Peeves me off. These Okes come into the shop with their Hong Kong Crib Watches, and ask for a discount on a R20 or R60 repair!!

I am NOT RACIAL - as i have many grand associates.

The pik shows the vehicle.

Regards Stewart W - CT

___________________

Technology is how you apply it....... woodiess - Cape Town.

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