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Do you know the age of your caravan?

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Do you know the age of your caravan?
15 July 2008, 0:26 AM
MissZetec2.0
Joined 15 Jul 2008
4 posts

Hi Mark,

I've just stumbled on this thread via a Google search and you seem to be very knowledgeable about caravans from all years. I am hoping you can help with a couple of things about an old Lunar Clubman I have just bought. Lunar have confirmed to me that it is a 1977 model and that it is most likely a 460-4 model. It has 2 double beds, the front is your typical double bed that you use the table to make it up with, the rear is a fold out one but with a removable table that isn't used to make up the bed. The toilet compartment in the rear corner with a washbasin and cabinet, no shower. It is cold water only delivered via an external submersible pump. Lights are via 12v spotlights in each corner and it has mains electric and a built in aerial. It has a wardrobe next to the toilet on the offside and the hob, grill, oven and sink all along that wall. The fridge is situated opposite the cooker in it's own cabinet. It is 14.5ft long body length, 6ft 9ins wide (measured to make sure it'd fit down the drive!) and I have been told it is probably 761kg unladen with a max laden weight of 914kg altho it feels less than this both on tow and manuoevring by hand. It has a steel chassis that I believe was made by Peak and it has glass windows but the previous owner replaced and resealed these so they may not be original. There are some quick pictures of the caravan here http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/Mis......chnewvan009.jpg http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/Mis......chnewvan008.jpg http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/Mis......chnewvan001.jpg The paintwork may not be original as again the previous owner did some work on it.

What I am trying to find out is what PCD the wheels are, and also what size the tyres should be? Both are of indeterminate age and one has cracks on the sidewall. One wheel is also so badly rusted there are holes in it so I need to find the correct size to replace it. They are 13 ins wheels and Lunar has said the old size was 590. I am unsure how this translates into modern sizes as I have seen it written as 165 80 13 and 185 70 13 for the same size tyre. Can you offer any advice?

Also the coupling head is very difficult to get off the car at certain angles. As you will see from the pics, our drive is on a slope and at this angle it required at least 2 people to manually lift the whole A frame to remove the caravan from the car. Even using the jockey wheel to raise the front end is insufficient. Do you know of any problems with these caravans in this respect? I had hoped to replace the coupling head with a more modern one in the hope that this would help but as it is cast/welded on I have been told I would need to replace the whole draw tube. Do you know of any vans whose over run system would be compatible with this one but with a more modern coupling head? Or any other suggestions how to overcome the unhitching issue? On a completely flat, level surface it unhitches perfectly and very easily, it is absolutely impossible on a hill. Very grateful for any info you can provide on this otherwise charming old van.

Netti

Do you know the age of your caravan?
15 July 2008, 12:17 PM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1875 posts

The PCD is easy on a four stud wheel, it's simply the distance between the centres of any two studs measured diagonally through the centre of the wheel.
(The 5 stud PCD is the slightly more complicated ones to measure as no two studs are directly opposite, this is; measure one stud centre to edge of hole in centre of wheel and times by 2, then add diameter of hole in middle of wheel)

Your original tyres would be 'cross plies' 590 means a 5.9 inches wide tyre the closest radial tyre is 155 or 6.1 inches
However cross ply tyres stood taller than modern radials, their side wall height being 100% of the tyre width, the problem you have is radials are only 80% or less.
So although 155 is correct on the width this tyre won't get your van to ride as high as it should, you will now be towing 'nose up' which is no good at all for safe stable towing and also it's probably not helping with your unhitching problem.

This means choosing a tyre that is as close to the original diameter as possible and generally means going up to 165 or 175, problem now is, will that tyre fit the wheel? or if it does, fit still with plenty of clearance under the wheel arch?

With all that in mind you might want to ask your local specialists their advice as to what's best, but the 155 radial is over and inch low and a 165 would give a ride height 5/8 inch low, the 175 if it fits would be closest at about 3/8 inches


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Do you know the age of your caravan?
15 July 2008, 5:57 PM
Chris
Joined 27 Jul 2004
3 posts

Hello Mark
I am rebuilding a esteral 3berth folding caravan ,as I have no info on this van I was wandering if you could help ,The chassis number is vfmee0017hd000169 and I belive the modell number to be 4CO7630
Thanks in advance
Chris


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Chris May

Do you know the age of your caravan?
15 July 2008, 11:45 PM
MissZetec2.0
Joined 15 Jul 2008
4 posts

Gary thanks for that reply. That could explain the differences between the 2 different sized tyres supplied with the caravan. The spare is 155, presuming 80 profile, the 2 tyres that are on there just now are 165 and again presuming 80 profile. It might also explain why the van always looks so "nose up" or tail down even when you lower the jockey wheel. It is level when towing tho, and always loaded sensibly. If I can find a supplier of an old cross ply 590 tyre, would that be the best solution? I have seen a few places that supply these for classic cars. Otherwise try a 175 80 13 tyre on and see how it goes?

Do you know the age of your caravan?
16 July 2008, 10:57 AM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1875 posts

I'd stick with radials, not least sorry to say, a pair of cross plies would probably cost more than the vans worth!!
As it's towing level then I'd also stay on 165 with a load index of 84 or above as the best compromise

Loads more useful caravan tyre info at http://www.tyresafe.org


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If you want to join the 'CARVER QUESTIONS' discussion and ask a new question, click on any 'reply to this message' within that discussion and your question will then appear on the last page.


Do you know the age of your caravan?
16 July 2008, 11:38 AM
Mark
Joined 26 Oct 1999
1115 posts

Hi Misszetec Garys comments on tyres are quite correct.... As to the caravan i would suggest that the "stripe" has been painted over the original colour? They used that colour in 1973 but they only had a single front window. The 3 glass front windows came out in 1975 but the stripe was dark brown, purple in 76 and salmon pink in 77. Lunar have given you weights on a Clubman model which yours is not. It certainly isnt a 450 as that is a later model. Yours is simply either a 14/4 or a 14/5 which was a predecessor to the Moonlight. The ex. works weight was more likely 700kg and a gross weight of 863kg, however that was for a basic van and the extras that have no doubt been fitted will have raised the ex works weight somewhat (not to mention the moisture content!) Peak stopped producing chassis in 1979 and even if you could find a replacement hitch it certainly would'nt be worth replacing. A good old clean out and lubrication might help! (the caravan that is :----) )Regards, Mark


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Do you know the age of your caravan?
16 July 2008, 11:42 AM
Mark
Joined 26 Oct 1999
1115 posts

Hi Chris can't really advise you on "rebuilding" the Esterel but I can say that if it is a 3 berth it is most likely a Caramatic 31 which was about 11' long body and would be likely around 1979 to 1983. I presume it is cream with an orange stripe and orange curtains? Has it got glass or plastic windows?


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Do you know the age of your caravan?
16 July 2008, 11:58 AM
Chris
Joined 27 Jul 2004
3 posts

Hi Mark ,
Hi it got plastic windows and its the usual tow tone fawn colour with briwn stripes down the sides Have you any idea where I might get some litrature on it as I have nothing at all to work with I have checked all around underneeth and all seems structurely sound but would like to no where greese points are and would like to get hold of a wiring diagram,
Thanks for your help
Chris


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Chris May

Do you know the age of your caravan?
16 July 2008, 6:31 PM
crash
Joined 16 Jul 2008
1 posts

Serial No info

friends have just bought a Bucaneer elan 15/2, advertised as a 1992 model.
The plate on the chassie has been replaced with a serial number plate of a Ex army landrover !!!!!!!!! I know what you are thinking - My thoughts too.....
Other than the chassie plate and the plate which should be fixed next to the door, are there any other identification numbers hidden inside the van. ( Sorry the doors and windows are not etched either)

Cheers Crash

Do you know the age of your caravan?
17 July 2008, 2:58 PM
taz
Joined 17 Jul 2008
1 posts

hi wonder if you can help me was sold a caravan as a 97 the vin number is s8812326071070 its a saphire eccles 5/6 berth, think ive been conned

thanks taz

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Do you know the age of your caravan?
17 July 2008, 4:11 PM
nathan5346
Joined 10 Oct 2006
25 posts

what condition is it in and how much did you pay?

Do you know the age of your caravan?
17 July 2008, 10:46 PM
MissZetec2.0
Joined 15 Jul 2008
4 posts

Hi Mark,

You are quite correct, the "stripe" has been painted by the last owner. Recently as it happens. I have gotten some more info off Lunar - they have confirmed it as a 1977 van but unsure of model. They have sent me some scans of a brochure from the time and the 4 and 5 berth Clubman weights are 813kg unladen and 967kg laden. Mine will be slightly less than this as the fridge has been removed. All the fixings look original. The only things added have been a porta potti and the cushions have either been changed or recovered at some point as they do not match the pictures in the brochure. It is definitely a Clubman van as it has a faded Clubman graphic above the middle front window (which someone has quite stupidly covered up with the Scotland flag sticker) and only the Clubman Lunars of that year had fridges, again according to the brochure. I know mine has been removed but the cabinet and the gas fixings for the fridge are still present. Do you know if this van would have had mains and 12v electrics fitted as standard, or would these have been retro-fitted later?

Also, tonight I have just tried the gas cooker for the first time. I was assured by the last owner that it was working perfectly on last use July 07. However, only 1 hob burner lit immediately and the oven lit after a few attempts. I still have 1 hob and the grill not lighting even after several attempts. I can hear the gas being let through to the cooker when I turn the knobs but it will not light. This cooker requires manual ignition with a lighter I bought from a caravan shop that produces a flame, not just a spark. Apart from this and the hitch issue, everything is sound with the van, so any suggestions on the cooker would be helpful. Maiden voyage ASAP. :)

Thanks,

Netti

Do you know the age of your caravan?
18 July 2008, 10:40 AM
Mark
Joined 26 Oct 1999
1115 posts

Hi Crash yes you have guessed what i'm thinking - thats certainly a new one - having a Land Rover serial plate attached to a caravan doesnt inspire me with confidence! The 15/2 dates back to 1980. If it was a 92 all the windows would have the VIN number etched. Some vans had the VIN plate on the side of the kitchen unit as you entered the door but i would suspect if somebody has gone to this trouble you wont find anything? Take a look at the towing hitch, if it is pressed steel you might find a year stamp but often these hitches have been renewed anyway. Maybe you could send a pic or 2 inside and out showing the shower room and kitchen units etc? Good Luck, Mark


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Do you know the age of your caravan?
18 July 2008, 10:51 AM
Mark
Joined 26 Oct 1999
1115 posts

Hi taz yes I think you probably have been "conned" The serial number you give would make the van a 1988 not a 1997. The vans were made by C.I. until 1991 then Sprite (Swift Group) until being under the Sterling brand in 1996. The word oops maybe comes to mind! Regards, Mark


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Do you know the age of your caravan?
18 July 2008, 11:09 AM
Mark
Joined 26 Oct 1999
1115 posts

Hi Netti the 1977 Clubman had double glazed glass tinted windows which they only used that one season and a salmon pink stripe. Now you have pointed out the clubman badge yours will be a 1978 model which will have originally had a brown stripe. The reason for the year descrepancy here is that the manufacturer begins his "prototype year" in June. Hence why I am now looking at 2009 models at manufacturers shows. Good luck with your gas - i would obviously recommend a service by a qualified engineer but you then fall into the expense trap! Better to be SAFE and skint than get blown up with a big wallet! Regards, Mark


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Do you know the age of your caravan?
18 July 2008, 5:34 PM
winfbrow
Joined 27 Apr 2008
1 posts

Hi there,

You seem a very knowledgable person and I really need your help please!

I have recently bought an Avondale Osprey caravan and desperately need to know the age of it.

The only marks on it are B&B Trailers Ltd, Leamington Spa and the number 279446.

Would you be able to identify the age of the caravan from these details? I can supply photos if required.

Many thanks Paul

Do you know the age of your caravan?
18 July 2008, 11:03 PM
MissZetec2.0
Joined 15 Jul 2008
4 posts

Better to be SAFE and skint than get blown up with a big wallet! Regards, Mark


How right you are Mark! Thanks very much for all your replies, been very helpful and enlightening.

Do you know the age of your caravan?
19 July 2008, 5:48 PM
jones
Joined 19 Jul 2008
6 posts

hi i just bought a lunar sunbeam and the seller said its a 1989 model. problem is there is no paperwork come with it and i cant find out serial number or details that ins company asking for. any idea where i can find this, is it stamped on van anywhere.
thanks

Do you know the age of your caravan?
20 July 2008, 11:45 AM
Mark
Joined 26 Oct 1999
1115 posts

Hi Paul i assume that is the B&B chassis number of your Avondale Osprey? - In which case it is a 1978 model. Cheers, Mark


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Do you know the age of your caravan?
20 July 2008, 11:50 AM
Mark
Joined 26 Oct 1999
1115 posts

Hi jones Lunar used a sticker system round about that year. They stuck a blue sticker on the nearside of the gas locker with the number on it although these tended to fade. If you send a pic. or 2 i will be able to identify it. i.e. the colour of the stripe and an internal of the upholstery and shower/toilet compartment. Regards, Mark


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