Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
10 May 2002, 0:00 AM

Richard
Joined 16 Sep 2000
343 posts

A couple of weeks ago my Escort 1.8TD suffered a timing belt failure after only 18000 miles on that belt. The belt was fitted just before I got the car, I have a receipt. I don't know about the quality of the work or the new belt.

Amazingly I checked the valve clearances and found them to be OK. This was a good enough hint that all was well for me to replace the belts (£72 from Ford!) on that engine. It has done several hundred miles and seems OK.

Has anybody else heard of premature failure on these engines? The AA man reckoned he personally recovered 4 a month on average.

Due to the tenuous nature of the arrangement I went for the genuine parts. Is the current Ford kit the answer or will I have to keep checking the belts for signs of deterioration?

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
30 May 2002, 0:00 AM

ric
Joined 26 Feb 2002
47 posts

Hi,
Sorry to sound like a kill-joy but as far as I know, the Ford 1.8D is very prone to cam belt failure and 99/100 this means major engine damage. You were very lucky! Every mechanic I know (if they have to run a vehicle with one of these engines) changes the belt every 10,000 miles.
Ric

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
22 June 2002, 0:00 AM

Joe
Joined 31 Dec 2000
103 posts

Probably best to get a Ford Main Dealer to supply & fit the cam belt then if you have this problem its down to them!!

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
23 June 2002, 0:00 AM

Richard
Joined 16 Sep 2000
343 posts

I got the dealer to supply the belt but there wouldn't have been any warranty on fitting it because the old belt had failed. I will probably get them to fit the next one, then I will be hoping for it to break so I can ge a new engine!

I know the belts have been upgraded (there are 2, one for the pump and one for the cam) but I don't know how much better they are.

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
23 June 2002, 0:00 AM

glen
Joined 23 Jun 2002
2 posts

Richard, how very lucky you are, seriously though, I am a mechanic and have replaced lots of belts on these engines (and a few cylinder heads) Only buy top quality belts - like Gates for instance, never re-use a belt, always check the idlers and water pump for any signs of bearing noise / movement - replace if any doubt and always tighten the belt properly, too loose is as bad as too tight.
Glen

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
24 June 2002, 0:00 AM

Richard
Joined 16 Sep 2000
343 posts

The kit from Ford came with 2
belts, tensioners, a new idler, all
bolts and comprehensive
instructions at a cost of £72. Not
cheap but quite a lot in the kit. I
am assuming (perhaps naively)
that the Ford kit will be good
quality.

I realise I am very lucky (2000
miles now, and counting),
especially as I was trying to start
the engine after it died. The belt
stripped a load of teeth, slipped
then picked up again. I bet you
couldn't have put a cigarette
paper in the space between
pistons and valves.

The old belt had no visible name
on it, I imagine it was the
cheapest available. I shall
certainly never use any of the
garages on the receipts I got
with the car because I have had
trouble with everything they
claim has been done.

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
30 June 2002, 0:00 AM

Vic
Joined 30 Jun 2002
4 posts

Richard, I work for ???? and own a 1997 Escort.
I have encountered a re-occuring problem that the shims on the crank and the shims on the cam wear very quickly if the belt is not tensioned correctly. To ensure the correct tension, do as follows. Not very ethical but it definatley works.
Remove the cam belt cover and the plugs, make sure the gear is in neutral and where the first tooth is about to hit the cog on the cam shaft, place a dril bit (1/8th) between the belt and the cog, turn the engine slowley so the bit catches between the belt and cog using a socket and ratchet,if the bit continues to rotate round the cam with the bit, the belt is too loose. Remove the bit and tension the belt some more, when the tension is right, it will feel like the belt will snap if you force the cam any further. If you do this right, you will get the recommended 45,000 miles from the belt.

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
30 June 2002, 0:00 AM

balloon_man2000
Joined 30 Jun 2002
2 posts

Does anyone know whether this "Failure" on the timing belt would apply to my car. I have a P reg Ford Mondeo 1.8 TD

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
1 July 2002, 0:00 AM

Joe
Joined 31 Dec 2000
103 posts

I have not heard of belts going on Modeo's prematurely, but for any car you need to stick to the guidelines (well within). going back to an earlier posting - I understand that Ford only gaurantee the Cam Belt if the new tensioners are fitted when replacing the cam belt. I would also recommend changing the belt on the pump too whilst you're there after all its probably done the same mileage? Its like changing an engine in a car, always better to 'bung a clutch in' whilst you have it out! I also agree with the Mech earlier - The Cheapest parts aren't always the best!

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
1 July 2002, 0:00 AM

Richard
Joined 16 Sep 2000
343 posts

The Mondeo 1.8TD has the same engine so yes, it would behave in a similar way to the Escort one.The AA man who towed me home said that he personally rescues about 4 a month, Escorts and Mondeos, with this problem. He was a right bundle of laughs.

As far as I can tell you should be fine if you use good quality parts. The best way to do this is to buy the Ford kit at circa £72. If you get a dealer to fit it there should be a warranty. I did it myself, following the comprehensive instructions that Ford give you. The Haynes manual tells you how to make the timing tools (2 6mm drills and a cut down M10 bolt).

Basically, if you don't know when your belts were last changed or have doubts about the quality of the work/ parts then you should get it checked out.

That seems to be the engine's only real weakness. I still have the scars and the debts from trying to run a Peugeot Diesel so I am quite happy to change belts more often than normal on my Ford!

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
21 July 2002, 0:00 AM

aharcourt
Joined 21 Jul 2002
1 posts

I am old enough to remember when the 'only' diesel cars on the road were the FX3 London Taxi and the Ugh Morris Oxford. The first useable diesel car was the Citroen BX, I bought one and started reading Diesel Car. They had loads of letters from customers complaining of £1000 bills for new engines after busted cam belts and they had always taken the car to the Citroen dealer for regular servicing. Then letters saying the same thing came in from owners of other diesel cars. The dealers just said it was 'unfortunate'. Well, when it eventually happened to a solicitor he took the manufacturer to court saying the car was of unmerchantable quality, it was unfit for purpose because he had stuck to the manufacturers service intervals at an appointed main dealer and he was entitled therefore to expect the car to continue to function correctly. He won, got his £1000 new engine cost back plus costs, and then what happened? Suddenly all the manufacturers dropped their recommendations of belt changes from 90,000 miles to 6o,000 miles. Personally as I used to run a garage I cahnged mine every 30,000 miles, after all it was only about £15 for the genuine part.
What you say about Ford doesn't surprise me in the least. I am also old enough to remember that Ford were the first to leave out the gearbox and back axle drain plug (we sell more gearboxes that way) when everyone else was changing these oils at 10,000miles, Ford were the first to leave out grease nipples so instead of buying 3p of grease you had to pay £15 for a new track rod end, Ford were the first manufacturer who would not sell you a new 35p carb jet - "no Sir, you have to buy a new £75 carburettor", Ford were the ones who made gearstick levers which came out in your hands (Mk1 Escorts, Cortinas etc) and "no Sir we won't sell you the stupid plastic 50p nut which holds it in, you have to buy a £27 gear stick", Ford were the first manufacturer to refuse to sell you a rear light lens - no, you had to buy a complete light. ford will be the first to sell you a car with a welded down bonnet. Except it wont be welded down cos you have to have metal in order to weld, theirs will be plastic and it will be glued down.
PS anyone remember the Official Ford Marketing rep on Telly commenting on Sierra floors cracking up when customers fitted towbars? Quote "If people want to tow caravans they should use tractors". So, the Official verdict on Ford's ability to tow is that they can't.

Get a Mercedes. Instead of cam belts they use duplex chains. Mine has been in for 180,000 miles, no attention and no bother. The are Far Far cheaper than Fords to run, and Guess which one is nicer to drive? Sample spare part price, Genuine Mercedes - rear brake disk, which incidentally has an integral drum for the parking brake - £13+ VAT. Ford? My guess would be around the £60 mark.

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
30 July 2002, 0:00 AM

ric
Joined 26 Feb 2002
47 posts

I could not agree more! I ran a VW for 5 years. When I bought it I worried about the cost of parts but over those 5 years and 110,000 miles I found the car so cheap to run I would recommend it to anyone. Firstly nothing seems to go wrong. Secondly, when it does the parts are cheap. Try £12 for front brake disks which only needed changing after 150,000 miles. etc. etc. etc. I worked out the car cost me average £32 per year for parts on top of normal servicing like filters etc. And, it was always a nicer drive than any Ford. Buying cheap doesn't mean running cheap. I would advise anyone that a 10 year old VW / Merc is a better bet than a 5 year old Ford for the same money. NB. The 10 year old German still has loads more cred than a brand new Ford!

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
30 July 2002, 0:00 AM

Richard
Joined 16 Sep 2000
343 posts

I can tell you that I had decided to go German before I read these last 2 posts.

My reason is not parts cost (I still perceive German parts to cost more, though I am prepared to believe I am wrong) or reliability but RUST!

My Escort, at 6 1/2 years old is well on its way to developing cosmetic and structural rust. The battery tray is non existent, therefore it lets in gallons of water.

It is a little galling to pay £1000 on top of my Escort for an older car but I have to tell myself I am buying many more years of use. Even up here in Scotland there are several A, B & C plate AUDIs going around with no rust apparent.

I have just about decided to go for a mid 90s AUDI 80TDi Estate, with a VW Pasaat or Skoda also on the list depending on what cars and how much cash are available at the time.

I moved to Ford because I was so impressed how much better a £75 Sierra (bought under protest in an emergency) was than the moneypit Peugeot that it replaced (the cause of the emergency). I still bear the scars from one of the Pug's many cooling system failures. All the Fords I have had since have beaten the Peugeots (I had more than 1, I'm a slow learner) on every count except rust resistance.

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
29 October 2002, 0:00 AM

ian
Joined 22 Jan 2000
22 posts

well i have got a mondeo with 178k and i change my belts at every 30k and have had no reliability probs with the car which does 47k a year for me and all i do is change the oils and filters every 10k .

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
7 July 2003, 0:00 AM

toothpick
Joined 7 Jul 2003
3 posts

does your engine have Endura DE written on it? I can't find a manual which covers it, a 98 escort. I had a look at the cam pulley and it's a different setup from my 91 fiesta diesel, I borrowed the focus diesel book from the library and to my dismay it's also different (endura DI). It's against my religion to get a main dealer to do timing belt.

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
7 July 2003, 0:00 AM

Richard
Joined 16 Sep 2000
343 posts

I't isn't an Endura but I think the only difference is in the turbo etc. The Endura has 70HP while the non Endura has 90HP.

If you get a main dealer belt, which I strongly advise you to do, you get full instructions with it. £72 seems like a lot but you get 2 belts, tensoners, idlers and full instructions. Mine failed due to having a cheapo belt fitted (before I bought the car, my genuine belts are still fine 20000 miles on).

If you want I can scan in the Haynes and Ford instructions and email them to you.

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
7 July 2003, 0:00 AM

toothpick
Joined 7 Jul 2003
3 posts

If it's haynes 1172 then I've already got it for my previous car. On my car there is nowhere to insert a locating pin in the cam pulley and there is only one bolt and not 5 as on my old fiesta. Would be gratefull if you could email the scans if this sounds like yours! [Log in to view email]

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
8 July 2003, 0:00 AM

toothpick
Joined 7 Jul 2003
3 posts

Hello Again Richard, what were the problems with the peugeot? I heard that it's £500 for a set of hoses for one of those and the valve seats need recut on a warped head but headshop said it was only £90 to do, I've been thinking about buying one with gasket gone to sell on for profit.

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
8 July 2003, 0:00 AM

ian
Joined 22 Jan 2000
22 posts

mine has now done 200000 miles and i just replace the belt at every 30k and the oils and filters every 10k and its an endura de engine in a 97 mondeo, the haynes manual dosent really cover this engine as the cam gear is different it is locked in place with a small peice of angle ,but then i get away without that i just mark it first, also it has a belt tension indicator with two arrows to line up for the best tension, i have been doing these for some years now without problems ( now watch it fail)....ian..

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Premature Timing Belt Failure on Ford Diesel
8 July 2003, 0:00 AM

Mark1
Joined 12 Mar 2001
105 posts

To time the camshaft on your engine, remove the camshaft cover and you will see an eccentric slot machined in the tail end. You need a piece of angle or flat iron/steel that is a good fit in this slot. When the slot is in line with the top face of the cyl. head, and accepts the angle iron, the timing is correct. If it requires adjustment slacken the sprocket bolt and break the tapered joint between sprocket and shaft, adjust and tighten up again. Marking the sprocket is another way but errors will creep in over time and the camshaft timing will become somewhat retarded, due to the v. slight stretch of the belts. Depends on what tools and facilities you have available though as to which method you use!

Mark.

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