Talbot Express engine noise (ticking)
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I have just bought a 2.0 petrol Talbot Express autosleeper and the engine seem to be making a loude ticking noise (coming from under the bonet) when i am accelerating. Can anyone tell me if this is normal? I am slightly worried there may be a problem. The van drives ok apart from this noise. Van has got 56K on the clock and engine has just been serviced and condition appars to be good (apart from ther noise) Anyone got any ideas? Thanks in advance TB3
Normally the noise is slightly worse when cold. Best thing to try is start it up from stone cold and quickly check for any leaks you will feel it blowing on your hands but remember you dont have long before it will start to burn your hands so be careful. It could also be a crack in the exhaust manifold itself. In either case usually there is a black sooty deposit on the engine or manifold where it's been leaking. Sometimes a torch and a little mirror is ideal for this task. Obviously I am guessing here but from your description of the noise this would be my first thought. ___________________ THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT !
i will check exhaust today and update thread. Thanks TB3
Not a big job to replace the exhaust gasket (BTW it is 4 seperate gaskets but supplied as one single block which you have to cut). However, there is a chance that an exhaust manifild stud has sheered or will sheer as you undo it, which can get expensive to have it drilled out. just be careful undoing them and don't do them (the studs) up too tight when refitting. Leave the manifold to Exhaust joint as loose as possible without it leaking. Official measurement is 22mm spring length but this may be too loose if your springs have corroded. Judge the correct distance yourself but remember that it is better to have a squeaky joint than a broken exhaust manifold. Also look at why it happened in the first place. Possibly replace the rear mount (£48 from Peugeot) if the engine is twisting excessively and stressing the exhaust. You may find some useful info here: http://www.jktowers.fsnet.co.uk/motorhome in the gearbox page. Regards, Steve
Thanks for the info. Not only have I been able to confirme that i have a leak from the exhaust gasket / manifold but i have found 2 mainfold nuts sheered off (bet the person who sold me the van knew about these). I am not sure whether thay have sheered off flush with the head or if a portion of the stud is still sticking out (weather has been too bad to get under the van). Can anyone tell me if it is possible to drill out / remove broken studs without removing the head. (engine only has 50K on it so there is not much to be gained from taking the opportunity to re-vamp the head). I have heard that a special tool is required to remove the head bolts? can anyone advise on this - is it a torque drive or a special Talbot part?
For info: Up to end of model year 1986 standard hexagonal Head bolts, from model year 1986 it appears they are the Torx type. I suggest you speak to the dealer as the later bolts may well be "stretch" type which means they must be discarded after they have been removed (don't attempt to re-use stretch bolts or they WILL snap off in the cylinder block). I would also recommend you get a copy of the Russeck Pocket Mechanic Manual. Good value at £16 (or there are CD manuals on Ebay ) I've seen a price of £30 quoted for Drilling out a stud but don't know if this was with the head removed. If you can get a drill up there (easier on the lower ones), or one of those flexible extensions that might work. You could try removing the rear engine mount an lowering it with a jack to tip the engine back a little but this may not help much and be careful not to over-stress the other 2 engine mounts. It is worth investing in some good quality metal drill bits, and remember that drilling thick metal requires a pilot hole and a slow drill speed (<1000 for larger drills). You only have to drill a large enough hole to get an extrator bolt in. Also, you will be drilling above your head so it is important to wear eye protection. I have seen the effects of a shard of drill metal in the eye (my brother's) and it was very painful to get it out! My favourite method (If you have a welder and there is a bit of stud protruding from the head) is to weld a nut or bolt to the stud and put a spanner on that. This works as apart from giving an excellent grip the effect of heating the stud to weld temperature can loosen the rusty grip. I prefer a MIG welder but be careful to avoid splatter into the chambers and/or onto the mating surfaces for the gasket, and of course you're welding above your head to wear suitable protection (inc hair and ears!). What ever you do but some new studs and nuts for re assembly. Cheap from the Peugeot dealer and money well-spent. Good luck. Let us know how you get on. Regards, Steve
Many thanks for the advice. i will keep the thread updated to let you know how i get on. Thanks again TB3
MANIFOLD: --------- Its been a few years since I've done this but I'll try and remember....Mine did not have the manifold heat collector attached, so I suggest you remove this. Looking at the manifold shown here http://www.jktowers.fsnet.co.uk/motorhome/image......ustManifold.jpg it appears that it is held on by one or two small bolts accessed from underneath. 1) Raise the front of the vehicle on sturdy ramps to give better access. 2) Remove the heat collector by undoing the one or two bolts securing it underneath (personally I'd remove the airfilter at the same time as it gives a lot more light on the job. 3) undo the 2 bolts securing the exhaust from downpipe to the manifold and remove the exhaust. 4) You should be able to access all the manifold nuts from underneath using a combination of spanners and socket drives/extensions. you may need to use a 1/4 socket set rather than a 1/2 in one and various extension bars to reach some of the bolts. If access is really tight remove the rear enine mount and (with a jack supporting the rear of the engine) tilt the engine/gearbox assembly back slightly, although this will reduce the space for getting a spanner/socket to the top nuts. 5) Once removed clean the cylinder head mating surfaces being sure not to scratch them too much. 6) Clean the manifold mating surfaces. If the manifold is warped then get some sheets of wet'n'dry on a VERY flat surface and rub the manifold up and down this, changing the motion freaquently to avoid wearing new low points. Gradually reduce the grade of abrasive paper until you are happy. 7) Reassembly - Buy new exhaust gaskets from Peugeot. They come in a single block and you have to cut them (I use a pair of sheet metal cutters but I assume some sharp sissors will suffice). 8) Now... coat BOTH surfaces liberally in exhaust assembly compound to take up any inperfections in the surfaces of the head/manifold. 9) Carefully slide the gaskets over the studs in the cylinder head and try to remove any assemly paste from the threads otherwise it will make removing the nuts diffictult later. 10) Carefully slide the manifold over the studs and support it whist fitting some of the nuts finger tight. Note: I used all new stainless steel nuts purchased from a local fastener store. 11) Tighten all the nuts EVENLY a few turns at a time. It does not need to be super-tight otherwise it will be a nightmare to remove later, but DO make them very firm (I don't have a torque setting but I'd guess somewhere around 20-30 ft Lbs, just a guess though). 12) Refit the rear engine mount (if removed) and refit the exhaust. 13) Take care NOT to overtighten the two bolts securing the exhaust downpipe to the manifold. The spring length should be 22mm but this is for new springs so you may have to experiment going SLIGHTLY less. DO NOT test the joint yet, wait for the exhaust to be sealed first. 14) Start the engine and let it idle for a while to harden the assembly compound (see instructions on assembly compound for time, but typically does not take long, maybe 10 minutes). 15) Now the exhaust is set tighten the flexible joint to 22mm and test it on the road. The joint should be flexible. If is too tight to permit movement the manifold WILL eventually break away. Better too loose. MPG: ---- There has been some debate / disagreement on this and I'm not going to start an arguement over it! However here are the facts as I see them. My well-tuned coachbuilt Talbot does 19-21Mpg depending on speed (motorways) or terrain (hills), and if its on a steady run (60mph) or working around town. My 2.3 Bedford CF Van conversion (not a hightop or coachbuilt) did 17mpg around town and 25-27Mpg on a run (very much more aero dynamic, and a heck lot faster!). I have owned four 2.0 Ford Sierras all with comparable or more advanced engines (SOHC and DOHC) than the talbot, all weighing less than half and producing twice the power (injections). All did approx 24mpg extra-urdan and 28 Mpg on a run (70-80mph). I've recently converted the Talbot to LPG which gives 16-17Mpg (bang-on the expected 10-20% drop over petrol). All this leads me to conclude that the indicated 19-21mpg from the coachbuilt Talbot Express is accurate and acceptable. An interesting asside here... my speedo reads quite high at speed. Indicated 62(ish) equates to 56 on the satnav. Flat out and with a considerable run up indicates 80mph on the speedo which equates to just over 70mph on the SatNav, right on the max 10% tollerance. This should not however effect the odometer reading because this is entirely mechanical rather than the magnetic speedo. DOES IT MATTER?: --------------- That's a bit more tricky. 1) Health risk? You're venting a small amount of exhaust gasses into the space just behind the bulkhead. Well ventilated and well sealed from the heater air intake / interior so unlikely to enter the passenger compartment. Probably not an issue in my opinion. 2) Possible loss of power? Maybe on tuned engine with a gas-flowed 4-2-1 manifold, but highly unlikely to make a difference on the de-tuned talbot with the really rubbish straight 4-1 manifold! 3) Will it damage the engine? Slighly trickier. The blow-out gass will merely leave a sooty deposit. It is not burning at this stage (unless your tuning is really out!). However, excess oxygen in the exhaust can lead to after-fire (backfiring though the exhaust caused by unburnt fuel igniting in there). This can damage the exhaust baffles internally after a while. 4) Annoying noise? Yes! I have to pack it in now as I have RSI and typing is quite painful, but I hope that helps. Given your imminent holiday, the fact that you'll need to order/buy an exhaust gastet and nuts, and the possibility of snapping a manifold stud when removing it, it may be best to leave the job until after the hols. Hope you have a good time. . Steve
Hope this helps Terry
as I stated in previous message my mistake Terry
I haven't got around to the job yet but your info has solved a problem for me!.i had undone the lower bolt but couldn't locate the other. Hopefully i won't need to go down the head work route u mention but will bear the firm in mind. while i'm writing this does anyone know of a contact for the window fittings(that hold the blinds down)on the Fiat Ducato based "Merlin" model Auto sleeper?.mine is a 1987 model.thanks Rob
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Edited by maddog 8 July 2008, 11:13 AM
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