Why I will not be buying another Peugeot...
Messages 1 to 11 of 11.
Sold incorrect parts despite being given the chassis VIN number to identify, AND I provided photos of the correct parts AND where they fitted! They refused to accept these incorrect parts back. Charged £55 for a 'diagnostic check' which only revealed the same results 2 independant garages found (they did not charge as they could not advise what was at fault. The tecnicians advise was to 'see what developed' and that 'harsh acceleration in any car would cause problems'. Sadly I was unable to collect my car in person otherwise I would have told the tecnicial what a useless pratt he really was. Failed to sell me a car because despite being repetedly advised I was buying a car, he was more interested in attempting to sell it to my mother. I'm 28 for god sake. I stormed off in disgust. After contacting the dealer principal I have had suck pearls of wisdom as 'the tecnician in unable to recall making these remarks', 'this is our standard fee', no comment on effectively stealing £55 and the cost of parts. Peugeot UK state that 'we have no control over our dealers, they independant companies'. This is pure bull, the dealers are agents in that were Peugeot acting responsible, they would withdraw the dealer status from those rogue traders. Peugeot France refer the matter back to Peugeot UK, who repeat the same company line and advise I contact the dealer principal. He has not answered any question for months. Now the matter is in the hands of my solicitor. If anyone is going through the decision to purchase a Peugeot car...please bear this in mind. If you have ANY problem, Peugeot as a company will not help. I have purchased a brand new vehicle from an alternative manufacturer, and am delighted. My household did have 3 Peugeot vehicles, that is now 2. Unfortunately my mother has had a similar experience and that will fall to 1. My work runs a fleet of vans...they are assesing several manufacturers products...guess what? No Peugeots though...
It seems that your beef is really with the actual dealer rather than the Peugeot brand , let me say that you will experience this with any manafacture . I cant really comment about the parts issue because that isnt my forte , but i know that if parts are special ordered with us and they are incorrectly ordered then generally they can be returned but they put a surcharge on the item which is fair for both parties . The diagnostic side is a difficult one , £55 is a going rate for a maindealer if you consider £100 per hour and its taking them 25-30 minutes , fault codes are as good as the tech who is reading them - sometimes from experience you can make a decission on replacing a part etc , sometimes the fault maybe a spurious fault especially if we are talking about a can related issue ....... by the sound of it they have cleared the faults , let you have it back to drive and see what developes , if the fault reappears then they have a blank canvas to work from regarding that particular fault ......this is standard practice especially when we are talking £100ph , they may have needed an extra 2 hrs to diagnose this and still not found it . Some faults can be voltage related so a simple clear and develope is sometimes the best option . Regarding buying Peugeots , i have no connection with Peugeot at all , but ive noticed you say that if you have ANY problem they will not help you , if you are an owner and you have warranty or you have just paid to have your vehicle repaired and you are not happy with something or it hasnt been fixed properly then you do have recourse . Im not disagreeing with you im justing giving you my take on your comments as someone who knows how these system works . ___________________ http://landroveradvice.myfastforum.org The only believers are brainwashed !!
It does not take 25 mins to read the fault codes on that car -and I know as I watched it be done. Twice. Unfortunately the only time I was unable to take my car to a dealers it was an official Pug dealer, which would usually make you feel more comfortable. Unfortunately not. The parts were not incorrectly ordered. I asked for specific parts and gave a photo, reg number and vin. They supplied parts that did not fit -eg I asked for a pump to injector no 1 fuel line, and recieved a low pressure to high pressure pump. As they look the same at first glance, you take them away. Then they supplied the parts, but with different fittings which would never tighten on the fuel rail. It's quite one thing to accept you can not fix a fault -quite another to suggest the best cause of action is to 'let the fault develop'. 'Er, will it not just keep loosing all power?' 'well, yes, but it will re-start, it has so far'. Excellent service. The sort of specialists one needs when undertaking motorway work. So Pug France and UK endorse this kind of practice -supply incorrect parts and refuse a refund, then following the diagnostic fiasco thy state they have no control over their dealers. Having worked in the auto industry I know this is an absoloute lie. One of the many factors in buying a car is the ease of maintenance. Therefore Pug will be loosing a lot of sales -I have since heard horror stories about the same dealer in Newark and also they are struggling financially. I hope for their customers sake they go bust fast. Having serviced my own cars for many years I had to resort to getting involved fixing the problem. I did in the end. It took 2 hours to figure out. If I worked on these cars all day...ohh about 5 mins? My beef is with the lack of support Pug have shown. Now I have experienced this, I know never to buy from that manufacturer again. I'm simply letting others know that too.
the vehicle may have presented faults which have been caused by parts other than the one which has been supplied and can only be found by renewal of said parts before and further diagnostic can be carried out. I see on a daily basis the despair and concern in customers faces when i inform them that the £300 pound part may be only part of the existing problem and there maybe further parts at fault, from the peugeot point of view we can only carry out work as presented in front of us and if a code read presents the techs with a fault then this MUST be rectified before any further checks can be carried out. As you have said you have presented the peugeot dealers with the relevent information for the parts that you required fitting along with photos but you didnt say if the parts you presented to the dealer were the parts which were diagnosed as being the faulty ones and why would you present the main dealer doing the work with photos if they had done the diag checks in the 1st place???. my presumption is this..... You have had the car diagnosed at an independent garage, they have informed you of what they believe (rightly of wrongly) to be at fault. you have then contacted the main dealer and asked for these parts to be supplied/fitted without the peugeot technician/parts department being aware of why these are getting renewed, it hasnt fixed the problem so therefore you are blaming the main dealer for someone elses mistakes. I also DO NOT AGREE with you saying that you hope they go bust, you may have had an experience that has not been up to your expectations however that is no reason to wish that however many employees of said dealership will lose their jo( from technicians, customer advisors, parts department, sales, administrators, accounts). How do you think their families would cope with a family member being made redundant in this day and age. im sorry i have been ranting on a bit but i dont think your attitude is something that will be welcomed in any dealership. and heavens forbid that you have a problem with your new car and act like this because the dealer is well within their right to REFUSE to serve you.
I gave the car to Pug, explaining the fault from a driver perspective, explained the fault codes logged and cleared, then asked them to check it. They gave me the same fault codes, and said it had to 'develop'. You're position on replace everything that has a fault showing is a typical main dealer perspective -even if it is something know in the trade to not cause problems. Thats probably why you're customers don't like being given their bills. The car was fix, without replacing any of the parts Pug suggested...and at minimal cost too. The parts I bought seperately were unrelated parts, and my position is still if Peugeot's records are so poor, or the dealer inept to interpret those records, each or either party should not force the purchase of them on me. This is something I could choose to take up through the courts I'm sure. As they comprehensively failed to either fix my car, or suggest a course of action to begin repairs, I don;t think they are competent enough to wash a car, so yes I do hope they close. Fast. You say act like this? Funny how you take the side of an incompetent dealer...
Dave used his intelligence to explore avenues where potentially the fault may originated and even provided the correct information for the parts. Now if the mechanic/operator is unable to decipher simple instructions, of ordering the right parts given the right information, then why are they there in the first place? In fact, why don't the dealership remove them altogether? Replace it with a monkey/dummy? Citing your example peugeotman on the £300 part; It is stupid, it really is, to replace a part, then the next, the next until you drill down to the item, which incidentally could be a washer that needed changing, then have the audacity to present a £1000 bill to customer. Why could you not diagnose the problem? Is it the case that either you not bothered or is it that you really don't know how to so you opt to replace the whole parent-child item? Pathetic. Go grow some brain cells. As for ignorance, there is no value, and in fact, closing down a or many dealerships, I doubt many customers would lose much sleep over it to be blunt with you. As for the credibility of buying a Pug again? Well, read the reports in most literature and the answer is clear - they produce crap, the quality is crap, unreliable, maintenance is lame and life of the car is short. Why do you think they pulled out of the Midlands? Search Watchdog and loads of reports on peugeot cars. Why create them I say? Waste of resources. Even though my pug is coming to the end, and even though it has been turbulent 7 years, it is something that I will be glad to take down to the scrap heap, piss in it, and set it on fire. Peugeot-Citoreon are the worse car makers in the world. Don't buy French. End of. Power to the consumer.
I've been in the trade 20 years and I'm Afraid that your statement of Bmw & Audi dealers being any better than the rest of them is a total fallacy in regards of tech expertise. Although what YOU may have found in reality is a dealer that does have good techs in it thats not to say the overall coverage is like that. I've come across some techs in Peugeot & Renault who are excellent in there job and very knowledgeable indeed, every bit as good as any Bmw or Audi tech this I know simply as I personally know people that have shifted back and forth from the various makes. I'm afraid the politics runs much deeper than your suggested all Peugeot techs are monkeys approach. There's too much to list it all here but a few things I will mention. First of all a lot of the big companies in particular dont believe in giving wage rises in line with inflation to there more qualified guys thus what happens is they simply say stuff this and move on and what happens is you are left with some younger guys which arent time served in some cases and havent been put on enough courses to fully understand what there doing but get thrown in at the deep end anyway and thus can give wrong results. A lot of these big companies have a certain mentality that they just keep recruiting new guys that will take less pay and stuff the quality of service and in the process lose the real knowledgable guys. It's all about minimum wages and quickness of throughput in some of the bigger places, trust me I've been there ! There is big big problem in the motor trade of companies simply not being interested in sending there guys on courses to learn more indepth stuff as it's simply a case of there not earning money. There's no diagnostic tool in existence thats better than a techs knowledge FACT ! however they are there to simply help or guide a tech in the right direction. Another thing that has to be understood about a lot of these diagnostic tools is the terminology on a lot of these machines particularly older ones is written by computer programmers not mechanics thus not all terminolgy can be interpreted in the same way so the so called simple instructions actually arent always that simple and in many cases can actually be a red herring. So the "only deciphering simple instructions" comment you made is simply wrong. There is a constant pressure on techs to account for time spent on a car, this case is very very apparent with electrical faults in particular and there can be a load of time required to actually find an electrical fault on a modern car with the company constantly pestering the tech asking how much longer it will take. Most techs that are reading this will know exactly what I'm on about. One of the biggest problems can actually be the customer gives wrong information on say... a noise or or other fault causing more wasted time. So if you can find a monkey that can fix a modern day car with full multiplexing etc then you've scored a watch ! In your defence however I do believe that more time should be spent with a customer as regards the initial interpretation of faults with there car when the car is first brought in and even going out with them for a road test so that there is absolutely no misunderstanding of a rattle or knock or poor performance etc. There's no doubt though that there is inconsistency of quality across the country though but it's exactly the same in any trade so the motor trade is no worse than say... the building trade. Also the one thing that for most customers I've found(woman in particular) is that most money spent on a car is a forced purchase rather than a "well I know thet I have to spend minimum amount of £££ every year on the car to keep it good and reliable" A lot of woman in particular seem to think that a car should go forever and shouldnt even need a top up of oil ever ! The closing down of certain dealerships can be a real loss of skill in certain areas of the local community and just because there's another dealer 5 miles up the road it doesnt mean they are any better skill wise. Also it means that these workers potentially could end up having to go on the dole that have a mortgage and family to keep. There is one point you make though that did make me smile and think about it a bit, "Peugeot-Citoreon are the worse car makers in the world. Don't buy French. End of." The above statement is very much an arguable case of course but it's even known in the trade that there not the best of cars to work on. Traditionally french cars were always more awkward than any other make of car for working on, however in my opinion this large gap of difficulty between the froggys cars and other makes has diminished a huge amount and even something like a diesel ford mondeo is every bit if not harder to do a clutch on as say an hdi 406. Have to say personally though that after driving things like Kia's, Protons, Daihatsu's, Daewoo's etc I think I would opt for the french stuff if purely for style and driving pleasure. ___________________ THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT !
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Edited by L.B. 20 May 2008, 3:03 PM
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