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hobby caravans again
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hobby caravans again
16 May 2007, 8:47 PM
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j2lf
Joined 16 Sep 2005
30 posts
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could you tell me who insured your caravan please I have a 635
John
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hobby caravans again
17 May 2007, 3:38 PM
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who
Joined 15 Nov 2003
61 posts
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The easy and simple way to insure a large Hobby is to do it with the CIS ( or the CO-OP as they used to call themselves ) reasonable price, easy to do and van does not have to be CRIS registered..Policy excess for claims is £50...beware company called Lister Patrick ..expensive and policy exces of £500 on theft claim
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hobby caravans again
17 May 2007, 3:45 PM
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j2lf
Joined 16 Sep 2005
30 posts
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would you have the phone number please:)
Kind regards
John
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hobby caravans again
17 May 2007, 4:35 PM
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who
Joined 15 Nov 2003
61 posts
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If you call them on 0845 746 46 46 they will sort you out immediately if required...I had mine insured with the Caravanning & Camping Club for five years and then they told me I should have CRIS registered it from day one..I can't do business with any company that is that inefficient so I changed to CIS who from what I can gather insure a massive amount of oversize german vans
Cheers
Chris
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hobby caravans again
18 May 2007, 2:31 AM
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j2lf
Joined 16 Sep 2005
30 posts
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Many thanks Chris, as usual with this great group fantastic information which is very much appreciated.
Kind regards
John
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hobby caravans again
18 May 2007, 10:19 AM
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redman53
Joined 3 Oct 2005
23 posts
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We insured our Hobby with the camping and caravanning club and never had any conditions recomended or imposed. They were the only ones who would insure a Hobby van at the time as all other companies we tried - that was most in the yellow pages - wouldn't touch them as they were a very pinchable commodity!!!
___________________
Thanks
Redman 53
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hobby caravans again
18 May 2007, 3:29 PM
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j2lf
Joined 16 Sep 2005
30 posts
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Thanks Redman, I think the point before was: - the camping and caravanning club failed to mention that you had to be CRISS registered to be insured and that they failed to mention this for five years which meant the person was not insured for all those years but still took his money). I will make sure that I will ask the question now that it has been pointed out to me. I would ask them yourself as you didn’t indicate that you had asked the question yourself only that nothing was said!! Better to be safe than sorry. Thanks to everyone who has helped me regarding insurance for my Hobby.
John.
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hobby caravans again
18 May 2007, 4:17 PM
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who
Joined 15 Nov 2003
61 posts
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The point really about my previous post is the the matter only came to light with the Caravanning & Camping Club on renewal when I wanted to change the value for my awning as I had replaced it..During the conversation the woman I spoke to said that my van was not CRIS registered so I said " And " she said it should be as they didn't insure them unless they were registered..I told her that they had been insuring it for 5 years like that and she then told me that is MY fault because when I took out the insurance somebody would have told me ( they certainly didn't ) and I failed to act...needless to say I sent them a letter outlining this problem and a few months later they still haven't replied
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hobby caravans again
18 May 2007, 5:04 PM
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beejay
Joined 4 Jul 2004
185 posts
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This subject will never end. It is a requirement of ALL insurance that ALL material facts are disclosed. Some companies ask questions over the phone that they consider relevant ,some require a detailed, proposal form to be completed. Nevertheless, as it is not legal to tow a trailer wider than 2.3m on a public highway (with a towcar under 3500kg), then that IS a material fact and MUST be declared. Many insurers will cover wide vans because they COULD be on a static site and not used on the highway, the fact that they didn't ask, specifically, does not preclude the proposer declaring it. My insurer, NFU, and many others, ask ..."is the trailer longer than 7 metres and/or wider than 2.3 metres." Now, why do they ask that?? There is no doubt that many people are towing illegally and get away with it just as there are many people dealing with insurance who don't have a clue. Ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law.
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hobby caravans again
18 May 2007, 5:52 PM
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redman53
Joined 3 Oct 2005
23 posts
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I was insured with them for 7 years and never once was CRISS mentioned at all.
___________________
Thanks
Redman 53
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hobby caravans again
18 May 2007, 7:12 PM
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Peter
Joined 8 Oct 2003
224 posts
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Hello all readers,
There are several threads to this problem that many overlook unintentionally or otherwise!
1. If one stipulates when taking out insurance (both for the towing vehicle and the caravan) that the width is either less than 2.3 m or greater than, up to 2.5 m, the declaration has been made and should be confirmed in writing by the insurer. Insurer's know the law - they will use their knowledge to get out of any claim, if they can!
2. The Caravan Club and The Camping and Caravan Club both issue a prospectus with reference to their insurance cover. It is necessary to read the small print. I found registration through CRIS as a requirement and duly registered the caravan when new.
3. Don't believe all you read on this forum and what you may be told by dealers and/or those in authority. Find out for yourself and be truthful when taking out insurance. Get your evidence in writing for everything and keep it filed. I took 'good advice' verbally from one dealer that cost me a small fortune. Details can be read much earlier in this thread.
4. Some of us will only read/see/do what we want - regardless of the law, always assuming the 'law is an ass'!
5. Whilst on this theme, the 7 m rule applies to the internal length of the caravan, not the overall length.
Kind Regards to all readers.
Peter
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hobby caravans again
18 May 2007, 9:47 PM
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Kaiko2107
Joined 20 Jan 2007
63 posts
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Just on the subject of insurance. I am insured with CIS Co-operative insurance and i have it IN WRITING that my caravan is fully insured when being towed by ANY car i own. The letter was from the underwritting department. The letter says as follows.
Dr Mrs -----------
We at CIS would like to confirm that you are fully insured while towing you Hobby 650 KFU (2.5m wide) caravan with any of the vehicles that legally belong to you.
There is no cover for third party liability whilst it is attached to your motor vhicle whether moving or not. This cover is offered by your motor insurance.
Please contact your motor insurance company to enquire on the third party cover.
your
Mr ~~~~~~~~~~~~
Underwriting Department
i hope i will never have to use this letter in court for a claim but at least i have proven that i have made them fully aware of my intention to tow it in this country with my vehicle.
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hobby caravans again
19 May 2007, 0:40 AM
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Peter
Joined 8 Oct 2003
224 posts
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Sorry Kaiko2107,
Your letter actually confirms that you are NOT covered by the CIS insurance covering third party claims as required under the terms of the Road Traffic Act.
The letter DOES NOT confer on you the right to tow illegally. The onus is on you, not the insurer, to make sure you comply with the law. If you break the law then your insurance is invalid - read the small print.
You are mixing up road liability and your personal protection for your caravan. There is a very distinct difference.
Good luck with your enquiries.
Peter
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hobby caravans again
20 May 2007, 9:06 AM
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Kaiko2107
Joined 20 Jan 2007
63 posts
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I realise that. The third party liability is for my caravan NOT the car. eg if the CARAVAN was to roll away and hit a car or another caravan it would only be my caravan that is insured NOT any damage that it did to a third party vehicle.
My vehicle insurance i realise is a different matter but i am convinced that whilst i tow the caravan at least damage to my caravan will be insured.
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hobby caravans again
20 May 2007, 9:50 AM
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Peter
Joined 8 Oct 2003
224 posts
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Hello Kaiko2107,
Your last message confirms that you are NOT covered, as legally required under The Road Traffic Act, whilst travelling on the public highways.
You cannot have Third Party Liability on your own property - that is cover provided under a comprehensive policy.
Regards.
Peter
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hobby caravans again
20 May 2007, 11:17 AM
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MD
Joined 12 Apr 2007
70 posts
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Hi,
I'm new to this Forum, only because I have a Hobby 460UFe for sale, see classifieds section - but that is another story.
Looking at all the information that has been given about insurance cover, it appears to me that a phrase or two have been missing from the discussion. The term 'implied' under Terms and Conditions of Insurance covers a whole range of situations. In the case given above, about CIS, the term 'implied' has been used even though it is not written in the letter, as the caravan MUST BE TOWED LEGALLY. If you write off your caravan whilst towing it with a 1958 300cc 4 wheel Goggomobile (a small German bubble car) then you, the user, regardless of what insurance cover 'you thought you had' you will have been towing your particularly caravan without any form of insurance - road vehicle or caravan.
Likewise, 'declaration of intent'. If you do not declare that you are going to tow outside of the requirements of the law (and that is what you will be doing if you tow a caravan 2.5m wide in the UK without a legally approved towing vehicle) then your insurance can be invalidated for 'non disclosure of relevent facts.
Enjoy your caravanning to the full but do, for your own good, tow and insure within the law.
Why is this necessary? Just read the national newspapers over the last few days. Trailer, loaded with wood, overturns on hitting the curb, kills person on pavement and seriously injures a woman and her young daughter. Driver charged.
A second point worth mentioning. 'Nobbling' of the polls is an offence under English Law. Some of you readers have declared that you have fiddled the petition sent to No 10. What use is that, other than to get perhaps, a genuine petition, declared invalid?
I am sorry if this is a woman's view of your deliberations but it is a fact of life that some of you appear to be running with blinkers on!
Good health to you all and save driving.
Marjorie
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hobby caravans again
20 May 2007, 6:22 PM
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beejay
Joined 4 Jul 2004
185 posts
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We at CIS would like to confirm that you are fully insured while towing you Hobby 650 KFU (2.5m wide) caravan with any of the vehicles that legally belong to you.
But this assumes that the vehicles are towing within the Construction & Use Regs. CIS do NOT know what vehicle yiou would be using, ad, in fact, have no interest unless they insure the vehicle as well.
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hobby caravans again
20 May 2007, 6:38 PM
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Kaiko2107
Joined 20 Jan 2007
63 posts
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They do insure my vehicle as well. Both caravan and 2 of my cars are insurance via CIS.
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hobby caravans again
20 May 2007, 6:50 PM
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Kaiko2107
Joined 20 Jan 2007
63 posts
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I am not running with blinkers on and i certainly am not asking anyone to nobble the petition. If you read it in context you will see it was meant as a joke and not an actual intention to sign the dogs name to the petition. My car and caravan are well within the towing weight requirements it just that it is WIDER. I can still see with towing mirrors well past the sides of the van. I am not asking anyone to commit a crime or to drive dangerously FAR FROM IT. I also take offence at the suggestion of it. What i am doing is i believe right and justified. If other people feel the same then they sign the petition if they dont they wont. Simple as that. If this law gets open for discussion i would hope that they would also implement a driving test for towing with a trailer. FOR ALL TRAILERS/CARAVANS. I have see accidents with cars and caravans yes but i have also seen accidents with large vehicles and very small trailers. An accident is an accident. I have a back injury from 4 years ago when a woman drove into the back of me full force while i was stationery. No one can stop accidents from happening but we can only drive as safely as possible and hope for the best. This law will not change that.
Vicki
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hobby caravans again
20 May 2007, 9:09 PM
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MD
Joined 12 Apr 2007
70 posts
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I am indeed sorry if you have taken offence at anything I wrote. However, the truth often touches a raw nerve or two.
"My car and caravan are well within the towing weight requirements it just that it is WIDER."
So, you are towing outside the law and your insurance company, if they were advised of this exact situation, would confirm that you would be driving without the required insurance as stipulated by the Road Traffic Act.
"What i am doing is i believe right and justified." That is no argument for driving outside of the law.
"If you read it in context you will see it was meant as a joke and not an actual intention to sign the dogs name to the petition."
It appears to me to be a statement of fact. No 'joke' implied.
Long may you tow accident free.
Marjorie
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