hobby caravans again
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Triple bunks are fantastic, they were factory fitted option, dealer said they are only available factory fitted, only two of beds have window, there is plenty of space for children, they love it. We also had rear bike rack fitted(not on picture as picture is at dealers workshop and it was fitted just before I collected) 14 litre electric water heater, alloy wheels and electric heating. Andy
thanks for that, wish i'd pushed the dealer a bit harder at the time they look great. My dealer did do the water heater upgrade. Great vans though - tons of room. Don't suppose you've ever been pulled over about it? Richie
Never been pulled, never heard of anyone being pulled, lots of scaremongering goes on though, obviously there may be an issue in an accident but we'll cross that one when we come to it.
Like you i have purchased a Hobby 560 and am towing with a showgun 3.0 ltr sport and to date i have not been pulled once either by police or VOSPA, I UNDERSTAND THAT UNDER EU LAW you can tow this caravan and i have my insurance all paid up, and have checked both the documentation and also spoken to the insurance company who assure me i am fully covered in event of accident. There has been a lot of scaremongering on this, so if i was you enjoy your caravan as we do, and hope you have many happy touring days. PIPSTER
You are WRONG. EU law does NOT apply to Construction and Use of Road Vehicles Regulations in this country. Why do you think so many of us subscribers sent a Petition to Downing Street asking for a change of UK Law - which does apply to you and all owners of 2.5m width vans in the UK. You can read details of the petition and the outcome at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk . It will only take one fatality and you will all be asking your insurers to 'confirm in writing' that you are covered (not for just third party claims) but comprehensively for both car and caravan whilst you, knowingly, are /were towing illegally. I am sure you are aware how rapidly the value of 2.5 m width vans drop, when individual owners are faced with the risk factor. Vans that have been listed on e-Bay, some of them regularly over many months, are remarkably cheap - you might ask yourself why? I know of at least three caravanners that have had the law brought to bear on them - we regularly caravanned together. They (and I guess myself as well) have had egg on their(our) faces over the matter and keep quiet about it. As I said earlier, I am disposing of my 2.5 m Hobby to a German caravanner who can tow it legally. I am getting more than I expected for it. I am using the funds to buy a 2.3m van - in Germany. Even allowing for the fall in the value of the £ against the Euro and allowing for the travel costs, we will be saving just under £4000! Not many days before we collect it. One question that 2.5m owners may have overlooked the Roadside Assistance offered by the recognised brands only cover up to 2.3m width vans. We are even getting 20% on the new caravan insurance through the Caravan Club. In conclusion: Alan wrote the following on the 7th March 2008: Straight from the NTTA with relevant towing laws for UK. Maximum Trailer Dimensions for Towing vehicle up to 3500kg GVW Length (excluding the coupling and drawbar) 7.0 m Width Maximum 2.3 m (Towing vehicle over 3500kg GVW Length (excluding the coupling and drawbar) 12 m (min 4 wheels) Width Maximum 2.55 m) So, no, you cannot legally tow this van, also from another site the implication is that the weight of the van exceeds the Sharan towing limit. Either of these will invalidate you caravan insurance and you car insurance and put you in all sorts of other risks if stopped whilst towing. To legally tow you need a vehicle with a GVW in excess of 3500Kg, e.g. larger Transit type van, or large 'American' pickup/SUV. No British/European car/pickup/off-roader meet this specification (that I know of). For the sake of other road users, please be careful! Safe caravanning wherever you are. David
The VOSA person was very well informed and was perfectly aware of the rules and regs (as one would expect). He asked what the dimensions of caravan and towcar. Once my friend told him that the caravan was 2.5 m wide the chap from VOSA told him that it was illegal for him to tow it in the UK even if he were from another country where it was legal (there are specific conventions to cover some things that carry over from country to country in Europe but unfortunately caravans are not covered). My friend then said "So I suppose that means that I can't come into or through the UK". The VOSA chap told him that it would be unlikely that he would encounter any problems as there was no appetite to persue convictions for this. The VOSA chap did say that "of course if an accident were deemed to be caused by the width of the caravan then perhaps they might take a different view. He then asked about UK citizens towing 2.5 m wide vans and the VOSA chap said that the same applied to them. So the answer to my two main questions is : 1. Yes they are aware of the width issue (although some police men don't seem to be aware of it inc. some traffic cops). 2. They aren't minded to prosecute people for this. David, in light of this I would really like to know why your friends were "done", as this would disprove the assertion that there is no appetite to prosecute. I'm not being argumentative or trying to prove anyone wrong i'm simply trying to find out what really has happened out there. Personally I don't believe that these caravans are any different from 2.3 m wide vans (in terms of towing) and as long as the weight limits are adhered to there should be no problems or safety issues. Richie
I cannot help you very much because I only know the basic details of one case. It was to do with an accident in Devon when my friend met up with an agricultural vehicle of some sort on a country road. The off side of the caravan was sliced open, causing considerable damage to both the caravan and the agricultural trailer. His insurers wouldn't pay up because the police report confirmed that the caravan was outside of the UK regulations whilst being towed on the public highway. I think (I'm pretty certain) that the insurers had to pay out to the farmer. The caravan was a write-off and went to some scrap dealer that sells used caravan parts - he got £125 for it! The others are very reluctant to even talk about what happened - all I know is that they now have smaller (in length) vans of UK origin. As you have said, not much detail available. The real thing is that the Labour Government are fully aware of this problem - my MP knows quite a lot about it as he is a caravanner! He thinks! (sometimes I question that comment) that with the government, being short of a few bob, they could just have a blitz on the situation at some stage. It is a pity your VOSA contact couldn't record the discussion or get the information in writing - everything waits for a fatality and a major court case before the press starts looking at it ...... So, not much to add to your knowledge. Enjoy the hobby of caravanning - tow safely. David PS I think the word 'unlikely' in your message is the pivot point - unlikely, but can if and when need be!
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There isn't any difference in towing a 2.5m width van and the experience of towing a 2.3m van whilst on the Continent - other than the extra width. This is especially so when driving on the right and doing a sharp right turn from a narrow road onto, say, a main road. Some kerbs are quite high and I've seen a few damaged alloy wheels and caravan movers because of this. Personally speaking, I think you will find the vans slightly more stable when experiencing side winds - at least that is my experience. I liked your comment from the VOSA man: "of course if an accident were deemed to be caused by the width of the caravan" - as that is what it appears, to me, David was saying about the Devon accident. That would also explain the insurance problem. It looks as if those who tow 2.5m width vans may be OK until they actually call on their insurance, when something goes wrong. In my mind that defeats the whole idea and object of paying for comprehensive insurance. I notice that there is an increase in the number of 2.3m width Burstner caravans coming into the UK. Their models go up to an overall length of 7.61m with a body length of 6.1m. Their build quality is equal to that of the Hobby range but the number of models is rather limited. Interestingly, the English version of the Burstner caravan brochure states: *** Please be aware of UK regulations governing the towing of caravans over 7m long and/or 2.3m width ***. Madge
I was researching Hobby vans in 2005 and I questioned my M.P. about the 2.3 and 2.5 mtr rule. I received a reply on Houses of Parliament note paper to the effect that QUOTE " the government have debated the 2.3 mtr rule and decided that they would make no changes to that rule for this country and the matter is now closed" so unless you can get your M.P to table a motion and champion your cause then it is never going to happen in this country. Phil................
I'm new to Preloved but wondered if you or anyone out there has had problems being paid out with insurance for Hobby's. I did see one members (Mike) comments from september 07 but its archived and I cant reply to his comments. Would like to get some additional info as I'm having problems after an accident last year. Sandra
I insured my caravan with the caravan club, i pranged the rear end doing a sharp turn and they paid out no problems. Phil........
My van was insured, unfortunately not with the caravan club (we actually went with someone else who was recommend to us a reputable company!! specialising in Hobby caravan insurance) but I'm just having hells delight with getting any recompense from them. I've trawled through preloved and found archived info which is quite specific to my problem ...if you get my drift. And would have loved to have got in touch with Mike to see how he got on. Our Hobby was our pride and joy and we were devastated when it was written off. Another thing that we have found out if you have a new for old policy with a 5 year exclusion clause. If your van was manufactured even one day out of this period then the insurers wont pay out. eg. 2003 Model but manufactured at the end of 2002. Sandra
Your caravan was a HOBBY 2.3m width van. There hasn't been any problems with the Caravan Club insurance covering HOBBY vans PROVIDED they meet their insurance conditions: Under 7m body length and 2.3m, or less, for width. The real problems come with the 2.5m vans when things go wrong. The Caravan Club, when quoting for caravan insurance, always asks for length and width. Outside the spec and they will not insure you. Naturally, I'm sorry to hear that Sandra is having insurance problems - is it regarding a 2.5m width van? The same five or six year rule also applies to all ingress claims - not just new for old. There are also problems if the van is not serviced on or before the annual service is required - small print of ingress warranty. Sadly, today there are reports of the death of two young boys in a motorway accident. It is alleged that the driver of the vehicle causing the deaths was just 24, a well paid footballer who - it is alleged - was under the influence of alcohol and, perhaps more importantly, driving uninsured. He has now been charged with death through dangerous driving. This is similar to those who tow 2.5m width vans on UK roads - uninsured when an accident happens. No matter what individuals say, reality is that they are driving ilegally and uninsured. Sorry to end on such a sad note ........ Hope you have some success with your insurers. Kind Regards. Madge
Our accident was with a 2.5m van. But the problem with the insurer isnt due to the towing vehicle. We were well covered and had adhered to the law in that area; its with the actual pay out for the caravan. Unfortunately I cant name the insurers but needless to say I'm having a nightmare with them. They come up with every excuse in the book - I supply facts and supporting evidence to discredit their statements but they then change the goal posts. Is anyone else having similar problems with insurers over settlements for Hobby caravans. (And not due to the arguments over what size vehicle was towing it.) Sandra
I'm new to this forum, having been referred to it by another Hobby owner. Poor Sandra, a nightmare with insurance payouts, how horrible. Without naming the insurer, couldn't you give us a rundown on towcar, Hobby model and circumstances of claim? What is it that is causing the payout problem? How are the goalposts moving? I've got a 2.5m width van and am quite concerned about problems of insurance whilst on the road. I tow with a SUV 4x4 - no problems with the power or weight ratio, just the width. I tried to insure with the Caravan Club, to no avail. I went to Switzerland, where I have a relative, and once the caravan was checked and approved for registration with the authorities, insured the van through Zurich Insurance. I was informed that my insurance would not cover me if I travelled within the UK. UK Road Rules apply - just as if I go to Spain I must have a spare pair of my prescription glasses in the car. I must have two approved warning triangles. I must have a safety warning vest for all occupants of the vehicle. They must be on, before leaving the vehicle on any out of town road network. I must also have beam deflectors fitted. I know these items were checked when visiting Gib last year. This year I have left the van in storage, just fifteen miles from Calais. I'm hoping and praying it will still be there when I go back in a few weeks time. Let us know how you get on, please. Good luck. Cathy PS My first Hobby was insured through the Caravan Club and there wasn't any problem in paying for repairs after a rear-end shunt. It cost just over £1500 for repairs and I had to pay the excess of £100. The repairs took longer than getting the payout.
Am I right in thinking you could legally tow a 2.5 with a long wheel base transit (class 7)?? Husband has one for work and as we would only be caravanning within a 50mile radius (he's self employed and always on call) then it would't be too bad towing to site with the transit.
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Edited by Sandra 8 June 2008, 8:28 PM
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