hobby caravans again
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Another point worth mentioning is that some campsites, particularly on the Continent, don't allow 'commercial vehicles with caravans' on site. This is now spreading to the UK. A follow up regarding insurance and cover. If you buy a HOBBY caravan in Germany for, say £10,000, saving, say, £5000 (It was like that just a few years ago!) against the UK Dealer's List price, then, on taking out New for Old comprehensive insurance, the caravan must be insured to the UK value of £15,000. If it isn't insured for the full UK value, then any claims are paid pro rata on the assumption that you are carrying 1/3 of the risk (in the example given). I have a friend whose van was a write-off when it was just over 3 years old. It had been insured for the price paid in Germany. The insurer's went to Glass's Guide and promptly settled on 5/8th of the German purchase price. No NEW for Old as the full UK value hadn't been stated, nor the premium for such cover, paid. I understand that the Caravan Club supported the view of the insurer, not that of the insured member! All I can say is, beware. Get your facts right by doing your own research. Ask questions BEFORE paying or buying. Get all information/confirmations in writing - don't rely on ANY verbal instructions/information. Stay legal whilst towing, otherwise you too could be out of pocket. Cathy
Unfortunately I cant go into too much detail as I'm seeking legal advise, but when I refer to the goal posts I mean that the insurers ask for specific information, I supply it and they then discount the evidence by making unsubstantiated claims about the Hobby manufacture. When I then counteract their statement with hardcopy evidence from Hobby they still ignore it and choose to accept the 'word' of their third party. As a warning to others going to insure their vans; when considering the sum insured not only MUST you ensure that the amount is the current market value (as I did) but keep the evidence to prove this and additonally source market values for like for like carvans. I only hope that when or if my situation is dealt with, the pit falls of insurance and the insurers can be named to stop others from having the same problems. Sandra
A couple of things. For me the main point is that there is no appetite to prosecute not that it is unlikely that you will encounter a problem. Granted in an accident many things can come to bear but taking David's example of the Devon incident I can't see how the outcome would have been different if the person had been towing with a >3500kg commercial. My point is that if it's safe enough to tow with a commercial (>3500kg) then it should be safe enough to tow with an approriately heavy 4x4 (etc). I tow a 560kmfe in ROI and find it straightforward. As with towing anything you need to remember that it's there! Just hope none of us have any problems with our caravans and that we get a good summer this year to enjoy them...If we can afford the diesel! Richie
Just a thought as the insurer WILL not go against an outside subcontracted professional, regardless of if their right, wrong, in full possession of he facts or not. Wont cost to try anyway. Prove your case with the loss adjuster, see where you go from there. Nigel ___________________ If a jobs worth doing well,dont bother she'still find fault :)
Sandra
Sandra, I think you have hit on the gagging clause. Name and Shame isn't easy to achieve when it is your money that is at stake. I have heard of a couple of similar situations with Hobby and LMC caravan claims - both didn't come too well out of it, financially. Richie - Madge - David I get the impression you just aren't accepting reality of the law. There is a difference of 200mm in body width between a 2.3 and 2.5 m width van. In good old fashioned numbers - about 4 inches each side. Of course, any suitable vehicle, with a suitable driver can tow a 2.5m width van safely on the road, provided the country road, main road or motorway lanes are wide enough. It is common enough on the Continent and doesn't cause problems. However, in the UK, for the reasons stated in the Government response to the petition raised through this forum, the law under Construction of Use of Vehicles limits caravan width to 2.3m under certain conditions. In the UK, under current legislation, the maximum width of a towed trailer (and a caravan comes under that heading) is 2.3m. When towing such a caravan by an insurance authorised, fully insured tow car, if you are unfortunate enough to have an accident - 1. any third party claims are covered and 2. your caravan is repaired/written off and you recover its value. This is particular relevant when death of a third party occurs. Driving without insurance becomes a major consideration - such as in the current case where the man involved has been charged with causing death by dangerous driving; under the influence of alcohol and uninsured. Finally, the accident in Devon. As I understand it (I emphasise that), when the accident measurements were recorded it became clear that the caravan exceeded the legal width of caravans being towed by a UK registered SUV. It was deemed that the additional width was a contributing factor to the accident. Another contributing factor was that the additional fitted side mirrors did not provide a clear, unrestricted view along the full side length of the van and to the rear of it. Not being an expert one must, with due diligence, be aware of the situation that could develop whilst driving quite safely but get tangled up in an accident through no fault of one's own driving. Think of the number of motorway pile ups ...... Enjoy the summer caravanning with family and friends. Cathy
Help. I’m a rookie Have just purchased 560Exclusive UL. It has a small blue removable on board water tank under seating to left as you enter door. (My previous Prestige had huge white tank under the opposite seating and the hosepipe fitted into fixture on external wall of van and just took in water as required). This one seems to regularly require filling up by means of opening a cap on the tank, bringing hosepipe inside van and filling up. Is there another way to keep tank filled up that does not involve cutting into body of van or bringing hosepipe inside van? Any advise on this and any future matters would be most welcomed. Thanks Louise
You have the portable water carrier. It is designed to be removed from the storage hatch for filling purposes. It is on wheels and has a pull-out handle. You simply unscrew the existing large lid that carries the pump and hose and place to one side. Pull the blue roller tank out, fit the second cap (supplied) and roll-away to the nearest water hole. On return, make sure you have the tank the right way round, lift up and install in reverse. The tank is similar in construction and use as your Grey waste roll-along tank. Cathy You should access this tank through a small hatch built in to the sidewall of the caravan. Check your HOBBY HANDBOOK, it shows it quite clearly. Adverts Currently On Preloved - Place an ad here for free
If you read back through the forum notes you will find chapter and verse regarding the 2.5m width law. If you are a member of either the Caravan Club or the Camping and Caravanning Club they will provide you with a technical leaflet on the subject. You can also search the web using any of the search engines. Look for Construction and Use of Road Vehicles and gradually get down to trailers and caravans. A quick check on this is to look at any UK manufacturer's website and see if you can find a 2.5m width van for sale for use in the UK. Plenty of bed-time reading and plenty of room for thought. I've read back quite a long way on the forum and I don't think anyone has suggested a Land Rover long wheel-base model meets the criteria - in fact one forum member appeared to get a re-plating job done only to find further problems including the need for a tachograph ...... a higher insurance premium and tax classification. Cathy As an after thought: Have you seen ANY Continental caravanners in the UK towing twin axle foreign vans?
They make a specific model for UK use. This information is available on the Airstream site: FAQ 14. UK dimensions ? why are UK models narrower in width than US models? Dimension limits apply in the UK limiting the size of trailer body length towable by a domestic car (gross weight less than 3500kg) to 7m (22ft 11 1/2") long and 2.3m (7ft 6 1/2") wide. The Airstream body width for the UK market is 2216mm / 7ft 3 1/4" externally - so as to leave sufficient margin for boiler flues, door handle to give an overall width of 7ft 5 1/4" with an allowance of an additional 3/4" for the optional Zipdee awning to achieve the maximum UK overall width of 2286mm / 7ft 6". So, manufacturer's who want to sell into the UK market make vans to meet our UK regulations. cathy
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/67......tingStarted.pdf cathy
I did notice the wheels on the water tank. I suspect I might opt for bringing the hose to the tank as opposed to taking the tank to the hose; it might be a bit heavy once full. Louise
All credit to you for trying as many of us have done in the past to help others with the detail they need to stay legal (2.3 not 2.5 unless etc etc). You will find however many people using this forum who for reasons best known to themselves refuse to accept the law regardless of the amount of times it is spelt out to them. Regretfully this is not going to change, the proof is in the length of time this topic has been running. It seems to me that the best way forward is simply to ask Preloved to publish all the relevant detail or the links in one place for others to access easily and make up their own minds. Hopefully we can then be spared the need to keep separating fact from wishfull thinking. Apart from referring those in need to the right place we can then ban the subject. Cheers Mac
Cheers Smifff ___________________ Theory is a wonderful thing but very rarely works in practice
Do take care if you bring the hose into the caravan - it is very easy to overfill the tank and then the water tracks between the inside wall of the van and the floor and readily starts damp transmission into the flooring - the edges are NOT sealed during manufacture. Yes, the tank is heavy when full. I think it holds 20+ litres, so that makes it 20+kg in weight + weight of tank - making it about half a hundredweight! You can, quite easily, fit a T piece into the water pipe (with a turn-off valve) and then fill the tank from the outside through the hatch. I have seen this done on many Hobby, Fendt, LMC and Burstner vans on the Continent. Make sure you use 'food grade' hose and fittings. A funnel can be fitted to the hose extension to make filling easier. Many Continentals use a 'food grade' watering can with a special spout for this purpose. An alternative method that I have also seen on a Hobby involves an outside water container with a water pump and electrics in parallel with the onboard assembly. When the tap is opened, both pumps feed the water into the system (a) from the outside tank into the onboard tank and (b) from the inboard tank into the van's water system. I was quite impressed when I saw this for the first time a couple of years ago. I think it was Reicht (spelling?) pumps with a safety cutout (to avoid overfilling). You can also have a 'Whale' exterior water pump, water container and connection on the side of the van that feeds straight into the water system. This was done as an after thought on one of our vans. Avonbridge Caravan Service Centre did the work. Parts were about £40 and labour was about £55 - all plus VAT. That was some time ago! As you have probably discovered by now, Hobby vans can have a 'Self-contained' pack factory fitted prior to purchase if one doesn't buy off the display forecourt. This provides the 40+ onboard water tank, full 12 volt electrics, a battery, electronic battery charger ... that you may have had in your other van. Our vans have always been ordered the year previous to collection from the dealer in Germany. By doing this we get a van that is factory fresh with a full 5/6 year ingress warranty and it has the factory fitted extras that we require. We usually collect our new van from Germany over the February half-term. This gives us a week in Germany whilst we try it out and make sure all is OK. We have used the same campsites and dealer each year. The first time we had a caravan mover fitted and were trying it out (it was a new idea and the first one seen in action on the campsite) in the snow, we had a gathering of about fifty other campers and site workers all watching a little grey-haired lady move the van with ease ...! The applause was amazing. Enough of my ramblings. cathy
Thank you for your wisdom and your time Cathy. The van is 8yr old and is sited. I probably won’t tow it to a caravan service centre to have a connection fitted on the wall of the van. I will, however, consider the T piece on food hose idea. The tank just seems to empty so quickly! As I said previously, I was used to the hose fitted straight into the water system in my last Hobby prestige providing an endless water supply. It did mean I had to keep my eye on the wastemaster mind you! Re the ‘self contained’ pack. I have not yet sussed this out. I will get to know it over the forthcoming weeks. I have only spent one night last weekend in the caravan. I did note that the socket above the sink required an adaptor as it is a continental type socket. The paperwork shows the caravan was originally purchased in UK at JG Trading in Dunfriesshire. This past 4 weeks with the help of family I have totally revamped the inside of the caravan. I felt I wanted to change from the blue colour scheme of this model. So, I have renewed all the curtains (7 pair), painstakingly recovered all the cushions in the lounge area (lots of hand sewing and finishing) and am in the process of covering the coloured fabric trim around the wood face under the seating area and the wall trim around the bedroom as well as the wall panel with coat hooks next to the toilet. It looks absolutely fabulous. I’m dead chuffed; a new caravan entirely from what it was 6 weeks ago. It feels like mine now. I’m looking forward to going this weekend again. It sounds a wonderful experience, going to pick up a brand new van in Germany having ordered it to your own spec. Happy caravanning Louise
Sorry if I disappointed you, I guess one does go off a bit as you reach 80. Not only change of hair colouring but stature as well! I'm pleased to hear you have achieved so much in such a short time. The original supplier was supposed to convert Hobby vans to UK spec but obviously didn't! You can get replacement sockets that take our standard 13 pin plugs. If you use a convertor - Euro to UK - be aware that the cheap ones don't have an earth connection. Officially, you shouldn't use these in the UK. You can, of course, fit a Euro plug onto anything that you will use just in your caravan. That solves the problem. My regards and best wishes to you. cathy
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Edited by Cathy 10 June 2008, 11:34 PM
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