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Dog attack, police not interested.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 4:35 PM
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claire
Joined 3 Jun 2005
1939 posts
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he is cute isnt he dee, id happily marry him, would love to live with him and his pack. glad to hear the 2 dogs that were attacked are home. hope they get over the trauma. very difficult as they were attacked indoors, they probably dont feel safe anywhere now poor buggers
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 4:52 PM
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hayley
Joined 19 Mar 2009
3548 posts
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Claire what is your problem you have one mighty chip on your shoulder lady,So why are you trying to cause another argument with me have i directed anything at you NO,So why are you directing needless comment's at me,Was it not you that advised someone on here a while back to whack there poor dog because it jumped up and nipped them,umm,Also claire after reading some of your post's over the past month's i do have to question your dog ownership,As for mutilating dog's that i have never done or agree with but yes i do like certain breed's docked but done correctly which is now nothing to worry about as docking is now banned,So i suggest you need to now get back in your box and stop trying to cause trouble.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 5:05 PM
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Angels Bunny Stud
Joined 31 Jan 2009
3669 posts
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he is yes i want his blue pit heheehayley wasnt questioning anything though claire just asking baout those collars i was interested to as untill i saw yours i,d never seen one before and yes choke chains are horrid i wont walk any of my dogs of a collar ful stop suki is trained to but i wont she can be very strong too and i wouldnt risk her neck in any way but all hayely was odign was getting another view on them from a trainer :0)
___________________
rabbits are the best :0) 25 rabbits one dog 3 parrots 8 chickens http://www.angelsbunnystud.com
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 5:16 PM
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claire
Joined 3 Jun 2005
1939 posts
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hayley it was obvious that your comment was directed at me as i am the only person who has been attacked on this forum for using prong collars. the dog in question a few months back was a mastiff x staff. the dog was jumping up at the woman and her mother and biting her(not nipping, as i doubt she would have begun another thread asking about having to rehome or pts!). another member suggested she would have to put the dog down( notice you have not attacked that member) the member in question had good reason to believe this may be needed as her sister had almost had her face ripped off by another dog. i was extremely upset at the prospect of the dog being put down for a behaviour that could be stopped with firm handling. i stand by what i said. if a dog jumps up and bites me then i will give it a good whack. i have recently had to do this with my rescue scooby the potential sheep killer as he used to get far too eager when i would get the lead out for a walk. he would go crazy, jump up like mad and bite my arm or nearly bite my face. after a few good whacks over a period of time. he has learnt that this is unacceptable and will now sit and wait patiently until i put the lead on. i have never had to do this with my other dogs as i have taught them from pups, hands are not for bitting. also if he trys to pull me out of the door i will pull him back in and he will sit and wait until i think he is calm enough to proceed on the walk. these are things that some would have found him too difficult with and he may have been pts if i was not as firm with him. the fact that these methods have worked for me with him speak for themself. and if you recall i asked the lady how she dealt with the situation at the time. she said she gave the dog a whack and it stopped. so it worked for her also! the article that i showed on my post on tail docking showed that there is no humane way of docking. that puppies suffer from distress however it is done and the reason that i became so incensed with people was the fact that they think they have the right to mutilate an animal because they think it looks better! to me it beggars belief. i would not cut bits off my kids, nor my dogs.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 5:17 PM
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hayley
Joined 19 Mar 2009
3548 posts
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Oh i see i have just re-read this thread again as i could not see why claire was trying to pick an argument with me,This is because i asked deborah for an oppinion about this dreaded prong collor,I asked claire as deborah said she is a dog trainer and so thought she could shed some light as to what these coller's were about as she is an expert in the field,Nothing more nothing less so a bit od paranoia me think's claire as it was not intended at you because you use them,I asked out of interest claire as for the docking thing last week i was not the only one that was for breed's that used to be docked claire nor was i the only one against the use of this prong coller so please don't single me out.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 5:45 PM
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claire
Joined 3 Jun 2005
1939 posts
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no you wernt the only one to like chopped up dogs but you were the first to be so upset by me saying that i found it sick in the head. as all the comments were removed as to cut up dogs and prong collars i have been waiting to see who was going to start going on about them. i wasnt surprised when i saw it was you. you were, on the other hand by no means, the rudest to me on that post however and i see no reason to continue arguing as i think it would be a shame if we ruin this thread as well poor perfectpeckins left the last discussion completely! as i own the strongest breed of dog and have a particularly difficult case who also by the way had food aggression problems which i have cured( another thing that could have seen him pts) then i will continue to use prongs on some of my more difficult dogs. as chokes, he will choke himself to death on, haltis, my biddley rubbed all the hair off the top of his nose, and studies have linked them to neck problems as the neck is yanked to the side, and harnesses are no good as they are weightpulling dogs and harnesses are designed to build up a dogs strength, not controll it. someone mentioned the illusion collars on here a while ago. when i have some dosh i am going to invest in a couple of these and see if they work better, but am not sure with scooby as as i say, on a normal choke he will just keep pulling until he has seriously choked himself. the reason i asked deborah what line of work she was in is because i thought she may work in enforcing the dda and i wanted her opinion on how she feels it is working( or not working more to the point as bite statistics back up from the looks of it). so i will ask anyway, what is your veiw as a professional working with problem dogs? do you think that pitbulls should be banned?
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 5:56 PM
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hayley
Joined 19 Mar 2009
3548 posts
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In reply to your last post claire no it was not obvious me asking about the prong coller as i said, this prong coller has been the object of discussion i mearly thought i would ask an expert in the field i NEVER once thought about your use of them so as i said paranoia on your part,I will not have your view's over the docking forced down my throat by you i have my own and it differ's greatly from your's,Deborah gave me her view on this coller that is all it was,Also i must say i don't think how whacking a dog will teach that dog anything surely this is not acceptable training,I would ask deborah her view on this but you would only say i was getting at you,You maybe for whacking a dog i am not i don't see it myself as a dog would not understand this action, if you think i asked to get at you claire you could not be further from the truth but i am big enough to appolagise if you think other wise an act you are not prepared to do for the comment you made to me an other's on here by calling us sick in the head, All because we did not agree with you.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 6:44 PM
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claire
Joined 3 Jun 2005
1939 posts
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if he had not learnt anything then he would still be jumping up and biting me. of course a dog understands a reprimand they are not thick. deborah is more than welcome to tell me an alternative approach and i shall respect her opinion as a professional. whether or not i will agree with it will be a matter to be seen. he didnt yelp and run off in pain, when i smacked him but he did calm down. the idiots on dog borstal had an american bulldog pts for excessive jumping up. i would have given that dog a good whack as well, and told it to get down and would have saved its life. too many dogs that could be bought into hand are pts as this seems to be a more politically correct way of dealing with them. that is one of the reasons that i love cm. he would rather be firm with a dog than kill it.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 6:50 PM
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claire
Joined 3 Jun 2005
1939 posts
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i will not apolagise for my strong beliefs on the cruel disfigurement that animals suffer at the hands of humans for the sake of fashion and nor was i the only person on the post condeming it, infact another member called it barbaric! and another still compared it to cutting your childs arm off. neither of these comments were bothersome to anyone bashing me i noticed. anyway as ive said this is completely off topic. perhapse we could start a thread each if we wish to continue.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 7:06 PM
 Edited by Angels Bunny Stud 1 September 2009, 9:48 PM
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Angels Bunny Stud
Joined 31 Jan 2009
3669 posts
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might be a good idea you that one
i have to ask this on the strong dogs though dont go off on one at me but having trained dogs my self and spent to many years breaking horses why dogs are allowed to pull so much they need them? i wouldnt dream of allowing a horse which is esentally 3 times the size of any dog to drag me anywhere and i never used collars or be nice odds and sods just a normal head collar and i,ve some stroppy horses try it on over the years and all were more than capable of dragging little me anywhere they so choose so why cant the same be applied to dogs of all sizes etc i train my dogs the way i do any horse i have quietly firmly and with total confidence in myself and the animals
and again just a question not an excuse to have a go as this is actually revelvant to the thread itself as is the collars issue in a way with the types of dogs that were doing the attacking
___________________
rabbits are the best :0) 25 rabbits one dog 3 parrots 8 chickens http://www.angelsbunnystud.com
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 9:21 PM
Edited by hayley 1 September 2009, 9:30 PM
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hayley
Joined 19 Mar 2009
3548 posts
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I was not saying an appoligy was needed for your strong belief's claire but it is needed for the rude name calling you called some of us,As for other's that were against docking they did not resort to personal insult's as you did,There is no need what so ever to get personal and name call ,As i have said before claire i have to question your dog ownership as alot of the advice you have given on here i myself personally have been appauled by,At the end of the day claire you are not a dog expert you do not have the qualifcation's of a dog trainer you are a mere dog owner.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
1 September 2009, 9:46 PM
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hayley
Joined 19 Mar 2009
3548 posts
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Also claire you are being a little over dramatic about saying chopped up dog's,Yes i was upset to be called sick in the head that was a personal attack to some of us,I was not the rudest as i am not a rude person at all i have even appolagised to you if you found that you thought i was getting at you by asking deb's about the prong coller because i most certainly was not,I purley asked out of interest as i wanted to know a little more on these coller's as deb's is an expert i will say it again i thought i would ask for an expert oppinion nothing more nothing less and most certainly it was not intended or directed at you,So again i appolagise if you thought or think it was as it was not ok.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
2 September 2009, 0:44 AM
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Deborah
Joined 22 Jun 2008
8 posts
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Blimey, this is just why i don't usually come on this sort of forum but saw that no one had mentioned the DDA and thought it should be.For the record i have been training other people and their dogs for 30 years and behavioural one to one's for nearly 20, i run full classes 5 nights a week and have more than enough behaviour work for days and weekends.
I have built my reputation on kind, fair effective training (which is why i now have so many vets refering me) nor do i use drugs to dope the dogs to get the behaviour i want (as some do). Over the past 30 years i have only recommended euthanasia once and have had no failures with dogs who's owners have been prepared to put the work in with their dogs (some just don't want to put the effort in!)
The day i hit a dog to make it behave is the day i give up training or owning dogs.
Aggression eventually meets aggression - i see it too many times from dogs who's owners have followed certain ways of training! Anyone can 'make' a dog behave by using force but the dog hasn't actually learnt the lesson you think it has, it has learn't to avoid that situation but will revert back if in a differant situation for example, a dog that chases sheep - put an electric collar on it (no i don't agree with them) zap it when it goes near sheep (keep it up for several weeks), hey presto it knows not to chase sheep! only one day you unexpectidly meet some sheep and the dog doesn't have the collar on - it chases sheep, what it has learn't to do is not chase sheep in the situation when the collar is on - not not to chase sheep full stop - if you see what i mean.
I stated that the 'in home' dog bite statistics have gone up not just general dog statistics, start alpha rolling your dog and it will eventually tell you 'no' you just don't see what happens with some of these dogs several weeks later (i do, i have access to alot of things most of you don't generally)
As for 'dominance' what exactly is dominance?, pack hierarchy maybe, i see it daily with my 28 dogs (ranging from my 45kg gsd to my 1.2 kg chihuahua) but not dominance - that is a word us humans use for pushy dogs with no boundaries, Yes i do believe in manners and boundaries for dogs
Should probably leave the forum now ducking as i go
Deb
PS google CM court case
and take a look at http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/opin......p;ex=1314676800 or
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article......CMGPHL9D1N1.DTL
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Dog attack, police not interested.
2 September 2009, 2:07 AM
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claire
Joined 3 Jun 2005
1939 posts
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first of all dee the difference between a horse and a dog as cm says is that one is a herd animal and one is a predator. my shire x cob walks beautifully for me when i lead him. cant speak for other horses as he is my first horse. let me set the record straight i am as soft as sh** with my dogs generally and use positive reinforcment of praise to achieve good behaviour. all my dogs are well behaved and i have had countless compliments on them and the way they walk with me including when i have been walking 4 or 5 and these comments have also often been from the police. i have had many comments as to the fact that i am always out with them and have been told that alot of people dont even love thier own kids as much as i love my dogs. but i have also taken on a few problem dogs with little or no training. yes all dogs can be taught to walk correctly but when you have an ab adult, not bought up with cats, not lead trained, going into a frenzy every time it sees a sheep and jumping up and biting you, then you can do one of two things, get rid or try to at least sort the dog out to a level where you dont feel it will be pts if you rehome it. i do not down my dogs very often, only after they have behaved overly aggressively towards another dog, probably approx 4 times since i have owned them. i wouldnt recomend it to the average jo but sometimes, needs must in my opinion. on principle i will not allow man nor beast to attack me under any circumstance. this is a phylosophy that has saved my life on more than one occassion with animals and humans. if a dog bites me i will whack it. i dont care whether it learns that lesson in all areas of its life for the rest of its life. as long as it learns that in my company it will never get away with biting myself nor anyone else. i believe in treat based training to a certain extent but i also believe that the same principle can be said as deborah has outlined as to shocking a dog(a practice which i know we all agree is downright disgusting) into not attacking a sheep, once the stimulous is removed the dog can easily revert. a man over the park years ago used to get very frustrated with his cavalier as i would call my dogs and they would come running back everytime whilst his dog would occassionally come back for the treat he had been taught to offer in his training class and by the trainer who had come out and cost him£70 if i remember his regular rant correctly. as for detractors of cm, i think thats bound to happen. he has pretty much taken over the dog training world so there are bound to be jealous people. as for the court case i read about that ages ago. at no point was he implicated in any cruelty as he wasnt even at the centre and it was a member of staff. i think the fact that he has so many dogs living harmoniuosly together speaks for itself. some of his dogs such as sumatra, were actually fighting bred pitbulls. im sure that many of the trainers that slag him off wouldnt even go near the rehabilitation of these dogs. political correctness has gone a bit mad as far as im concerned. i do not smack my kids but if one of them walked up to a kid and started beating it up for no reason, or if my son came up and punched me in the face or if a mugger came up and tried to stab me then i would meet aggression with aggression. or maybe im wrong and we should all ,as david cameron suggests be out hugging the hoodies!
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Dog attack, police not interested.
2 September 2009, 7:05 AM
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Angels Bunny Stud
Joined 31 Jan 2009
3669 posts
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lol claire having had horses and dogs 40 odd yrs i do know the dfference i,m on about the leading and handling not agression thats different
i never had any issues with any horses or any of the dogs at the shelter either even them that came in pulling and or not lead trained all my dogs and ones i did at work were taught to walk to heel off a lead as well and my one dog i could take out riding and control him from a field away up to over half a mile with just hand movement and he would sit and stay till i got to him and i,ve never had a puller
(wish you,d put gaps in your posts hun makes my eyes go funny tring to read it so ican get to the bottom lol) )
wow deb dont bow out we need someone like you on here i holy agree with your post and if i ever need a dog sorting out and trainnng that i cant doi know where i,ll be heading :))
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rabbits are the best :0)
25 rabbits one dog 3 parrots 8 chickens http://www.angelsbunnystud.com
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Dog attack, police not interested.
2 September 2009, 8:50 AM
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Deborah
Joined 22 Jun 2008
8 posts
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Just before i sign off completely i will make it clear that although i use treat/toy/fun based training in classes for dogs and puppies that don't have issues, i am fully aware that treats (mostly) don't work with dogs with issues and aggressive dogs (stomachs shut down ready for fight or flight or simply fear) there are plenty of ways out there to sort these dogs out WITHOUT hitting/smacking them
As for being jealous of certain people, i don't think so! i'm quite happy with what i have and would die if i had to go on TV, i make enough money to keep me happy (and no i don't charge £100's) and keep my dogs the way i want them, not all of us want 'followers' i'm usually happy to keep quiet, hence the fact i don't usually do forums and i'm not quite sure how i got dragged back here.
FYI i do deal with aggressive pit bull types (reasonably often), i am at present dealing with one that has been in police custody for 12 months for aggresive behaviour towards dogs/people, he has been through the courts and has only been released for 4 weeks, our training methods will not include any form of aggression/abuse/hitting of the dog, we WILL sort him, as i've done many others.
Yes i know the old ways of training and used them myself until 20-25 years ago when my gsd x ridgeback taught me many lessons about this kind of training, but training has moved on so much i don't see why there is a need or indeed why anyone should want to hit an animal (of any sort) to get the behaviour they want.
I am fully aware that some people have gone too far the other way with their training and believe everything can be sorted with a clicker (which i do use sometimes) or just say ignore the bad praise the good (can't always be done for the safety of the dog or person) but there is still no need to hit an animal or use devices intended to hurt/shut down the animal
Signing off all forums - again!! (shaking my head in dispair for the misunderstood/abused animals with owners who can see no other way!)
Deb
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Dog attack, police not interested.
2 September 2009, 9:15 AM
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hayley
Joined 19 Mar 2009
3548 posts
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Deborah,just read this sorry to hear you are going i do hope you change your mind,Thank you for your word's of wisdom i have found you very helpful and have loved to read about your training method's,I have never had the need to take a dog to a trainer but should i,I hope i get one that is as careing and good as you sound with your training,I do hope you will come back,I appoagise for asking the question of these coller's that have been the topic of conversation of late i did not think it would cause this up heavel i asked you as a responsable dog trainer what your view's were in all innocense,I did not intend for you to be caught up in this it never crossed my mind this topic would cause a problem.
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Dog attack, police not interested.
2 September 2009, 10:58 AM
Edited by Angels Bunny Stud 2 September 2009, 11:01 AM
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Angels Bunny Stud
Joined 31 Jan 2009
3669 posts
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aww debs dont sign of i for one agree with you totally hun my way of training never used a clicker in my life they can work for some but dont like them you sound like a very decent perso who really cares like we all do on here well most of us any way
and i,m also getting fed up with this holier than thou attitude claire i used to respect you fully but now sorry your to arrogant and full of it and to ready to have ago yet again youve taken over a thread andi have actually had words with preloved i took time to worry that something was up with you as i have never seen this side of you but clearly we dont agree with you and you dont like it i took great offence at your words calling us sick in the head too etc but choose to try and steer away form that
once and for all shut up and leave threads alone i for one am sick of your i own the worlds strongest dog weight pulling dog braggingthat you have to point out in every flipping post well woopy do shame you cant control them really isnt it without resorting to cruel methods i know lots of dogs same as yours that walk beautifully without any hassle now i rarely let fly anymore but i have read and heard enough now and i,m going to follow debs out the door this is not what forums are for 3 threads have been ruined by you so please start your own thread an have ago on that !!!!!!!!!!!
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rabbits are the best :0) 25 rabbits one dog 3 parrots 8 chickens http://www.angelsbunnystud.com
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Dog attack, police not interested.
2 September 2009, 11:32 AM
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doodledandy
Joined 3 Apr 2009
6 posts
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I tried to follow the links on your post deborah but it says the page no longer exists and redirects me to the NY Times Archives (you have to pay to retrieve an archived article)I personally disagree with docking or any sort of cosmetic surgery for dogs in order to make a breed look 'desirable' - it is senseless mutilation. I disagree with any kind of violence towards any animal. I would rather hit the owner of an unruly dog for not learning how to train the dog before embarking on dog ownership! This thread was about a dog that was allowed to run riot and cause injury to another dog - the owners should be punished for allowing this to happen.
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Do no harm
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Dog attack, police not interested.
2 September 2009, 11:45 AM
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rin tin tin
Joined 25 Mar 2007
2775 posts
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Deborah if you are still reading this post will you e/mail me please , thank you (;
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A DOG IS FOR LIFE ! ! and def not for Christmas , please be his forever friend and care for him as you would a precious child .
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