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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE

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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
25 June 2008, 9:52 PM
Topcat
Joined 19 Jan 2002
5 posts

I have a Cascade 2 GE, 240 mains no problem.
Since I have had the van the gas heater side of things has never worked..
I have replaced the burner module with a new one, it lit for about 30 seconds and went out.
Managed to get another new one, this did not even try to light, no piezo at all.
There is gas at the solenoid, all that shows when it is switched on is the green light, on the wall switch and the inline/remote one under the bed box.
Has anybody any ideas, it seems it may be the control switch not controlling the burner ignition/gas solenoid. Is there an accepted test procedure for this unit.
Regards Terry

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
26 June 2008, 1:49 PM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1852 posts

Robin, the control with the fuses is the main control switch, the actual on/off switch is 'remote' in your control panel.
The left hand fuse is negative or earth so I'm wondering first if the cascades causing it or a problem elsewhere in the van?

1, Does the fuse blow if you pull the 'Din' plug out the switch?
2, Does it blow if you disconnect the module ends Din plug?
These two should prove a short in the lead if it only blows with lead in switch but not in module, it's common for the lead to get trapped and short out internally.
The only real reason for the module to blow a fuse is if the gas valve sticks down, this though will always be the positive fuse.

To check for an outside cause you'll need to connect the cascade switch directly to a battery so nothing else can interfere, if it works now you'll have to hunt the problem down elsewhere in the van.


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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
26 June 2008, 1:57 PM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1852 posts

Kevin, it would certainly seem like the element is shorting to earth, albeit I've only come across this once before?

You will need to test the element for a short, this can be done with a multi meter set to 'ohms' so it can read around 20 kilo ohms.

First isolate van from mains altogether, now between an element pin and earth you need more than 20k ohms to be sure it won't be the problem, you should get no reading at all but any less and yes the elements u/s


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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
26 June 2008, 2:04 PM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1852 posts

Terry, sounds like a switch fault but it can only be if original module was dated late 91 through early 93.
First though check both ends of each fuse to ensure all four ends are held tight in their holders, this fault can effect any switch.

To test for the other problem, green light on, pull out din plug and start to reconnect it, the idea is to hover the plug over the socket so it makes four of the five connection. If you get any life from the module while your doing this then the switch is at a fault.




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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
26 June 2008, 6:19 PM
Topcat
Joined 19 Jan 2002
5 posts

Gary
The van is a 1993 Elddiss Mistral XL, so the original module was probably right in the middle of the time period suggested.
If it is the switch is it possible to purchase a new or re-con.
Regards Terry


ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
26 June 2008, 6:26 PM
Topcat
Joined 19 Jan 2002
5 posts

Gary
The van is a 1993 Elddis Mistral XL which puts it in your age range for switch faults.
Is it possible to purchase a new or re-con switch?.
Regards Terry

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
26 June 2008, 9:00 PM
Topcat
Joined 19 Jan 2002
5 posts

Gary
The van is a 1993 Elddis, so the original module is in the age bracket you have mentioned.
Is it possible to buy a new switch?.
Regards Terry

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
26 June 2008, 9:20 PM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1852 posts

echo round here Topcat?

There's an easy test to prove if the switch is causing the fault, have a look back over the last half dozen pages as I'm sure I told someone not so long ago how to test it.
Other than that ring me and I'll explain for about the tenth time this week!!


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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
26 June 2008, 11:07 PM
Topcat
Joined 19 Jan 2002
5 posts

Gary
Must apologise re the echo.
Do you have any switches?.
Regards Terry

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
27 June 2008, 0:14 AM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1852 posts

No their like hens teeth but can repair yours 'should' it be at fault?


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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
27 June 2008, 9:23 PM
Yvonne
Joined 13 Aug 2007
7 posts

Gary - re-carver 5500
Got heater out & gauzes on burner are fine. Magnet should be fine as it's a new valve assembly. When pilot flame is lit ,it is a nice stable blue flame. Thermocouple is close enough to flame although about 1" of the pipe is pretty flat near the valve end - could this have damaged it ?
What do you advise - is it worth trying a new termocouple ?
John

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
28 June 2008, 0:03 AM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1852 posts

John, Carver used a solid copper thermocouple and this is flattened deliberatly so some indentification can be stamped on it? is this what your looking at?

It would seem obvious to believe the magnets ok but I trust thermocouples! this leaves the connection between, clean it an try again


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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
28 June 2008, 11:03 PM
Yvonne
Joined 13 Aug 2007
7 posts

Hello Gary
It was the ID mark i was looking at. Gave it a clean & built back up & it seems to be working OK at the moment.
Thanks for the help, much appreciated. I hope this is the end of it.
John

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
29 June 2008, 1:52 PM
Yvonne
Joined 13 Aug 2007
7 posts

Hi Gary. Short lived i'm afraid. I've been trying it all morning & it's back to square one.

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
29 June 2008, 3:57 PM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1852 posts

Seems daft to me, something simple is at fault, I can supply a new thermocouple which rules that out but.
I seem to remember something like this before, try lighting it and pulling the 12v connection from the igniter module, bit vague but could be an earth problem effecting the thermocouple and disconnecting the module should prove it.

Also the module should have a very short white earth wire going straight under the rear mounting bracket nut? if not it's an early one which needs this short earth adding and possibly for the reason above??


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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
29 June 2008, 8:37 PM
Yvonne
Joined 13 Aug 2007
7 posts

Gary.
No difference & it has the earth wire which i'd already cleaned up & it is connected to the circuit board end in case you wonder
john

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
29 June 2008, 9:17 PM
pkt
Joined 29 Jun 2008
2 posts

hi
i have just purchased a elldis mistrall gtx caravan and went to try the water system which is a cascade 2 ge. had water coming out of taps ok and it soon got hot and could hear the pump running but also there was water oozing out of the front of the cowl on the outside near the drainage plug . what could it be please help .

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
30 June 2008, 5:44 PM
Dreadedsnail
Joined 30 Jun 2008
2 posts

Hi...Gary?

Jow here, Iv never spoken to u before as i usually just follow one of your old threads to get the answers i need! Your like the saint of caravans and campers! I have a cascade 2 ge onboard the caravan i have bought to move over to spain in and i need to get it right before i leave, the lady who owned it before had lit it with no water in! (I think?)everything was melted! i have replaced everything except the module but now it seems there is no reasuring clunk to suggest the solenoid is opening and there is no sign of any gas coming through, when we took the panel that only competant gas fitters should remove (whilst laughing a bit) we noticed that the solenoid is a bit melted at the top and a couple of wires had come off. We soldered them back on but still no clunk or gas? is it possible to just replace the solenoid? or do we have to find a full module?
Please Gary.... Do you have any?... I cant face having to boil a kettle to do the dishes or having a cold shower!! Cheers, Jow.

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
30 June 2008, 6:32 PM
Dreadedsnail
Joined 30 Jun 2008
2 posts

Hi PKT,
It sounds like you need a fusable plug , it is a part that fits in just above the burner and will melt and leak water onto the jets to put them out if the heater gets too hot, this is somtimes caused by the themostat failing. If you take the cover off outside and try to see where the water is coming from that will help, its not always the plug, it could be that your drain plug is loose or that the safty relese valve has been triggered or failed. You need to put some more water in and try to see where it comes out... I have one that someone lit with no water in and 6 different parts were melted, have a look and I will try and help, you only need a crosshead screwdriver to see!

Dreadedsnail.

ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
30 June 2008, 7:42 PM
gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
1852 posts

Dread etc!, I've actually answered PKT when she phoned me and if memory serves hers is the drain bung seal, I've had three or four similar calls today?!

Your problem has always been the module, it's this that stayed lit empty or not of water, it should never get so hot and always shut down if the temperature sensor is doing it's job.
Second, melted above the valve means the valves leaking gas, in short you need another module.
Yes I have them, contact me direct for details


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