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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
24 June 2005, 11:13 AM
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sheila
Joined 20 Jun 2005
3 posts
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hi gary
My partner could not find any crack and when he tested it as you suggested the sound of the sparker was normal, so dont think that there is a crack there, he has cleaned up the burner around the ignitor and tried it with the gas, it ignited first time as it nornally did from cold, left it on for a while then turned it off and it reignited without any bang, so we will try it out again over the weekend, if it still banging, as Arnold says WELL BE BACK.
thanks for your help sheila.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
2 July 2005, 1:22 PM
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gray
Joined 2 Jul 2005
6 posts
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Hi gary what pump would you recomend i buy for a cascade mark two (second hand) to go with normal valve taps. The heater just supplies the one tap.
Also what is the ring pull as seen from outside the vehicle when the cover is removed.
Concernining the gas supply are there any safety measures as two where the tank should be situated compared to the heater itself and can i just take the supply off of the cooker supply and keep the required pressure for both units
Cheers graham
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
3 July 2005, 12:53 PM
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Steve
Joined 3 Jul 2005
13 posts
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Having just cleaned up my Carver Cascade 2 heater, it wasn't igniting the gas. I am finding that when i put the outer flue cover back on the gas goes out. If i leave the cover off, switch on, it works perfectly, heats water no problem. Has anyone any ideas as to what the fault could be? Igniter is OK, gas flow is good, with cover off, there are no restrictions or blockages. Any help appreciated. Steve
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
3 July 2005, 6:26 PM
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gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
2203 posts
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Hi Steve, you say it "works perfectly" well I doubt it otherwise it would work with the flue on!. There are a few 'winter covers' knocking about for this heater and these block the flue vents, I don't suppose you have one of these fitted do you?. You would have two pieces of plastic if you do, one screws to the van and the other just pushes over the screwed on piece
Other questions.
Apart from the above it would appear that the outer flue cover is starving the flame of oxygen so is that clear?. When it is lit is the flame pure blue about 40mm high?. Is the inner alloy plate in position?. Are there any soot deposits on the fins above the burner?. What do the burner ends look like are they reasonably free of rust?.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
4 July 2005, 8:39 AM
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Steve
Joined 3 Jul 2005
13 posts
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Gary hi, In answer to your questions, the flue cover is not a winter one as you described. The flame is not pure blue all the way to the top it has about a 5-10 mm red tip, but the flames are about the height you mention, 40 mm. There was a lot of soot in the fins, this was cleaned out, a cloth was put over the burner holes to stop it falling into them. I then used small paint brush to clean everything else and finally gave it a going over with the hoover.
Tried burner without inner cover but wind was getting in too much and blowing flame everywhere. Put inner cover on and all seemed fine, it kept going. Put outer cover on flame went out.
Sorry don't know what you mean by burner ends. There is a rectangular box with a series of holes in the top, are the burner ends under this? I did brush out what i would class as a decent amount of rust from around this box. Thanks. Steve.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
4 July 2005, 7:43 PM
 Edited by gary 4 July 2005, 7:45 PM
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gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
2203 posts
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From what say I would think you have a corroded burner..that 'is' the rectangular box and if your flame is creating soot it will also be creating carbon monoxide!!. A good flame will be effected by wind but a piece of board to stop direct wind should allow it to burn normally. Red or orange in the flame is dust being burnt and that's normal but yellow like a candle flame is what creates soot and CO.
The common cause of the burner rotting away is a leak from the 'fusible plug' set in the fins and or the 'quick drain valve' in the top left corner, or it could just be the way it faces over winter.
You cannot buy just a burner rail and a complete 'Burner Module' will be needed, these are £63 from Arc Systems or latest list price new from elsewhere is £102.
Gary
http://www.arcsystems.biz
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
4 July 2005, 11:00 PM
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JEGS
Joined 4 Jul 2005
1 posts
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I have a cascade 2 and wish to convert to use mains electric or gas. My memory tells me that it was possibe to fit an electric heater element to the water heater. Am i wrong, please advise
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
5 July 2005, 9:50 AM
Edited by gary 5 July 2005, 10:00 AM
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gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
2203 posts
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It is certainly possible but not particularly economical to add electric heating to a Cascade water heater.
Carver used to supply a 'Frost damage upgrade kit' which in the event of frost damage to the original tank this kit could be used and the cost offset against needing a new gas only tank anyway.
Problem now is the kit is not available and although most bits for it are, the plastic box that covers the electrics is not.
To find a secondhand box plus assembling a kit today I would estimate to cost around £180, at the rate the heater uses gas it would take years to recoup this outlay.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
5 July 2005, 3:11 PM
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fuseman
Joined 5 Jul 2005
1 posts
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I have a Cascade MK2 1992 with an electric heater fitted. The other week when we arrived at our caravan the control box was switched on as normal to heat the water, the green light came on and all seemed fine, but shortly afterwards the red light came on, I presumed I had run out of gas so I changed the bottle over. This did not cure the problem, I notice that the red light came on imediatly the switch was moved?. On investigation I found that the burner control module was full of water, so I removed it and drained off the water, gave it a good spray with WD40 and left it in the sun for a few hours to dry off. I refitted the module and the heater worked fine, I had a feel all around the water heater for a leak but everything was dry except for a little water on the floor under the module?. Then last week end the same problem again, the box was wet, I have again felt all around the heater but I cannot feel a leak, there was a little water on the floor just under the burner control module again. I have no idea were it could be comming from. would it be possible for rain to blow in? One thing that also crossed my mind was each week when we leave I just turn off the water heater on the wall and leave the system under pressure could this be the cause?. Any ideas guys. Thanks..
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
6 July 2005, 12:22 PM
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john1405
Joined 6 Jul 2005
2 posts
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could any one help im brand new to this caravan game , bought and used my 1993 lunar saturn for the first time last weekend fitted with a cascade mk2 water heater all whent well but outside pump runs all the time tryed to give it a gentel tap but nothing seems to stop it ,had to switch off and on by manual switch when using taps.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
6 July 2005, 2:01 PM
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gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
2203 posts
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First of all you are not moving the caravan then the water will cool down and release the pressure but you should always drain down when on the move.
It is possible for water to get into the module from outide but only if the rain is driving into the top righthand corner of the flue outside and only then a very small amount.
Most likely cause of it happening twice is a leak from either of the water pipe connections or a leak from the tank seal, all of which will end up in the module. To test give the pipes a tug sideways and if the plastic fittings are weak they will snap off, next remove the insulation jacket and grab the tank at the inside end, now try and rock it side to side... it should not move.
Another possible is a hole in the underside of the tank and again this will run along and drip into the module, if you can feel any 'scab' like lumps on the underside this will prove the likelyhood of a leak
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
6 July 2005, 2:09 PM
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gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
2203 posts
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Taps are always fitted with microswitches but not always used sometimes a pressure switch is fitted instead and this will be close to the water inlet and have a little white knob for adjustment on top.
Mirco switches usually won't switch the pump on when faulty but sometimes the tiny 'C' spring used can 'pop' off and and fall between the two contacts making a permanant connection.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
6 July 2005, 3:09 PM
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Dave
Joined 25 Oct 2004
15 posts
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My Lunar Meteorite doesn't have switches on any of the taps, but just relies on the pressure switch to turn on the pump when the pressure drops. When I first got the van the adjustment had been screwed up so high that the pump never went off - I reckon that adjusting the pressure switch might sort out the problem.I once was trying to sort out why a friend's narrowbat kept flattening it's "domestic" battery. It was only when she told me that she'd had to change the water pump fuse to a 25a one that I twigged. The demand pump was a powerful pressure one (not like the little impellor one on my Metorite) and was running until the pressure stalled it. Thank god I found the problem and re-adjusted the pressure switch - she had underfloor heating from the pump cable which was only rated at about 10a, not the 20-odd amps of stall current - it's a wonder that it hadn't caused a fire.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
7 July 2005, 0:07 AM
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john1405
Joined 6 Jul 2005
2 posts
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cheers gary and dave i will give the pressure switch a go in the morning thanks again.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
7 July 2005, 10:18 PM
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tony
Joined 7 Jul 2005
1 posts
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HELP i have a compass vantage caravan 1992, and the cascade 2 water heater and the green light stays on all the time but the pump doesn't fill the tank and nothing happens. What could the problem be and how can i fix it. Thanks
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
7 July 2005, 11:46 PM
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gary
Joined 13 Mar 2002
2203 posts
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Not a lot to go on so here is some general information that should help. The fact your van is 1992 could mean your control switch is faulty though?The Carver Cascade 2 is a 9 litre storage water heater, which when running on gas will heat the water to 65deg c in about 45 minutes. On 240V mains assuming it has this facility, the time can be somewhat longer or shorter depending on the wattage (630w 3amp to 840w 5amp) of the element fitted, you can use both gas and electric together for faster times.
To operate the gas there is a wall switch or a switch within a main control panel, either way both have three lights green, amber and red. When switched on the green lights, (water tank must be full, i.e. water coming from hot taps), if it stays on after about 8 seconds then the gas has lit and all is well. If the green is joined by the red then you may have a problem, but if the gas bottle has just been changed then air in the pipes will have to be bled through by repeating the above 2 or 3 times. Once lit, and it should light without any pops and bangs, (this would indicate it needs a service), the heater looks after itself and gives constant hot water. Any problems will cause it to shut down safely and show the red light. Forget the amber light, its to show low voltage and wont light unless the voltage is so low the heater and everything else packed up long since, though you may notice it flash as the switch is turned on or off.
The 240v emersion heater if fitted is totally separate, and lies behind a white plastic box on the inboard end of the water tank. It is controlled by a switch, often close by and at floor level, but again sometimes as part of a remote control panel. The switch has a red light to show its on, not that its working, this will be determined by the water getting hot. If it does not then it may have tripped Two types exist, early circa 1990 are non-re-settable but are repairable. Later models have a Red button on the end of the plastic box which is sometimes behind a little flap. Switch off mains, and press to reset.
Other faults concerning the gas side very often come down to the Burner Module. This handy little unit contains the burner, gas valve and all the electronics which control it and is accessible from behind the cover outside of the van. In the event things go wrong its a 5 minute job to replace it, with a new or serviced exchange unit. One other safety device is a wax filled fusible plug, this again is behind the outer cover and shows itself as a 13 mm nut set in the fins above the burner. The wax will melt if things get too hot allowing hot water from the tank to spray over the burner and put the flame out. This will render things safe but will require a new module because its control circuitry is faulty. However given if the fuse 'blows' without the water apparently getting to hot then replacing the plug will be sufficient. The point to note here is that over time the wax in the plug degrades or the threads leak, at the very least allowing water to seep onto the burner causing it to rust and eventually will still require replacement of the whole burner module.
Further problems that come to light in spring is the discovery of frost damage to the water tank, the non-return valve which is part of the cold water inlet and other plastic fittings. Failing to drain the heater when there is a chance of temperatures dropping below freezing can be very expensive to repair and should be avoided by removing the drain bung and allowing the heater to drain completely. Later models have a valve above the drain hole in the top left corner of the flue cowl, these have a toggle showing that when turned a ¼ in any direction will allow air into the tank and assist the draining. Older models still have the valve but the flue cowl needs to be removed and the valve end pulled to open it, in this case opening all taps in the van will do much the same thing. It is most important that the drain bung is then only placed back into the hole and not screwed in, any water left in the system can then drain away.
Frost damage to the tank will be obvious by the leaking water from the damaged seal, the damaged non-return valve quite often will prevent water coming from the hot taps although the cold water flow will be fine. Other fittings are often cracked by the pressure of the frozen water and will leak on refilling the system.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
8 July 2005, 12:14 PM
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Steve
Joined 3 Jul 2005
13 posts
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Gary, thanks for that. I will look again this weekend and try and sort it then, hopefully. If not i could be contacting you for the burner. Once again thanks. Steve
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
9 July 2005, 5:31 PM
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naughtydog
Joined 9 Jul 2005
1 posts
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i have a carver ignition circuit which refuses to supply a high voltage spark, however when a 12v test probe is touched onto a resister near the h.t area a spark appears, only one unlesss the 12v tester probe is re-touched onto the resister , there is two lights a red one and a yellow one both of which are on all the time. please advise as we have a soldering iron etc but have no circuit diagram, and our holiday is getting ever closer!!!! thanks in advance. if the carver manuals you mention are of use for us please can you tell us how to get hold of them.
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
9 July 2005, 7:36 PM
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Del
Joined 9 Jul 2005
3 posts
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Hello,
I have a Carver Cascade 2 fitted to an ex-B.T. wagon.
I have just dismantled the burner unit to find that what used to be a tube within the square burner unit is almost completely rusted away.
I do have the ability to make a replacement but have no idea what it used to look like before it became a pile of rust!
Can anyone help with any ideas or a source for parts.thanks
Del
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ALL CARVER CASCADE WATER HEATER, GAS FIRE, FANMASTER,P4 QUESTIONS HERE
10 July 2005, 8:24 AM
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Dave
Joined 25 Oct 2004
15 posts
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Gary
We noticed a water leak from the region of our Cascade 2 the other day and upon investigation found that it was from the water outlet union which sheared completely the moment I touched it. I'm still trying to remove the remains of the old one - a large stud remover just enlarged the central hole even though it provided tons of torque. I believeyou knock a large screwdriver into the hole and try to undo it with that - any other ideas ? - I don't suppose easing oil would help on a plastic/aluminium joint.What do you charge for a replacement union ? is it a standard pipe thread ?
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